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Hoist/Cohen Court Claim - Barclaycard debt SB ?

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No

They can't change the oc's defaulted date either


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Thanks dx. I've notified Noddle that they are incorrect entries and asked that they remove them. They have replied by stating they will contact the creditor so I'll see what happens.

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why noddle?

hoists problem not theirs


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I was reading various forums and the general theme seemed to be to report it to the CRA. I don't suppose I'd get any joy complaining to Hoist would I?

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yes hoists problem

you send them a letter giving them 14 days to correct the dates of the defaults

[include copies or evidence of the defaulted date entered by the original creditors]

 

 

should they fail to correct the errors

you will be raising a formal complaint with the ICO in 14 days

and will seek financial compensation too.


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Thank you dx, I'll get that sent off and see what happens.

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Hello guys,

my day in court has come around fast and just wondered if there's anything I should or shouldn't do?

 

 

I have my witness statement and do I just work through it and just answer the judge as per the statement?

 

 

I'm worrying the other side will throw legal jargon in and I won't know what to say!

Or am I worrying unnecessarily?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks, cam

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Have they paid the hearing fee as per the Directions ?


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Hi Andy,

it was struck out because they hadn't paid the fee in time

 

 

then I received a letter from the court saying they'd paid it and it was reinstated giving me a new court date.

I haven't heard anything since and it's for Wednesday.

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Ah yes ...well your all ready..no need to do anything...both parties have followed directions and your good to go.........go through your witness statement again and stick to the main points of contention.

 

The DJ will run through the claim and your defence and then will address both yourself and the claimant if he unsure of anything...he directs you just respond and then he decides...hopefully to your gain.

You are litigant in person and not expected to know legal jargon so if your unsure ask for it to be explains in layman's terms.

 

REgards

 

Andy


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Just stick to point 8 of your WS...I cant see how they can get around that..or the Judge


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IMHO if you get approached by the fleecers for a 'little talk' before we go In smile refuse it!


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Hi all,

Well that was an experience!

 

 

Its a bit hazy but i'll try and remember everything.

Sorry for such a long post but I want this to help anyone going into a similar court situation as you really need to be fully prepared and ready for any question.

 

I'm sad to say I lost and judgement was awarded to the claimant.

The district judge wouldn't accept the argument that recon agreements can't be used pre 2007

stating that if it wasn't retrospective there would be a footnote in the case of Carey vs HSBC and it would be known to him.

 

 

He then gave me the opportunity to show that this was the case and my warning to others is - be very prepared!

I wasn't prepared enough for that question and because I had no case in law to show him that was that.

It was so overwhelming that I didn't push the point that s127 1&2 were repealed from CPR April 2007 onwards and just wasn't able to get my argument across.

I think this is where I lost it.

 

For whatever reason he didn't have a copy of my defence or witness statement (the solicitor for Hoist did have a copy),

he hadn't looked at the case prior to us going in.

 

 

He then spent 5 minutes reading my copy and then asked the claimants solicitor to counter my ws.

She showed the copied application form which he said was completely illegible but accepted her argument that you could make out my signature and the date.

 

 

We spent a short time discussing the Mercers default notice and he checked some very large books and concluded that it was an acceptable default notice as they were acting for Barclays and he didn't know of any where in CPR or Consumer Credit Act that the notice had to be from the original creditor.

 

I continued to argue the point that the recon dated 2010 couldn't be acceptable as they couldn't show that the terms were the same as an original in 1994 creating an unfair relationship. The judge stated that on the balance of probabilities the agreements are similar over the years and was having none of it!

 

The judge also made an issue of how the debt was assigned and to whom, that this is irrelevant and they have the right to the debt

to which I replied that they also have rights and responsibilities to the debtor which they haven't fulfilled under the CPR request but again to no avail.

 

He did ask the claimants sol why there was no default date on the mercers notice

to which she replied 'well it was around that time' which he seemed to accept.

 

 

He also had a chunk of the claimants witness statement missing namely the Exhibit that contained all the notices of assignment etc and took her word for it when she said they were all in the file.

 

I'm a bit shell shocked to be honest as I don't think he would have accepted any argument I made and had made his mind up from the start.

I asked if I could appeal to give me chance to gather the evidence for the points I'd made

but he refused and then said in his written statement he'll put in that I have the right to have a circuit judge re look at his decision if I should decide to go down that path.

 

 

I mentioned that as a layperson it was difficult to argue the points to which he replied, along the lines of 'if you use law in your argument you must be able to show the relevant points of law'.

 

The only plus side was that he wouldn't allow them to add any interest because of their slow response to the CPR request.

The claimants solicitor also asked for her additional costs 'as the defendant had no realistic chance of defending the claim'

however the judge didn't allow this and told her that I had made some strong points and said only standard costs would be allowed.

 

It would seem they can abuse the court system,

not respond to deadlines

or provide the correct paperwork even in the room yet still win.

 

 

She even brought a trainee into the room with her to sit at the back behind me which I found quite unsettling,

its a surreal situation that throws you off balance once in there.

 

If there's anything I've forgotten I'll add it when the statement comes from the court.

 

 

My question now is - should I appeal to the circuit judge? (after a stiff drink and a sleep!)

 

Thanks guys, cam

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sounds like judge lottery in the main


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Hi all,

Well that was an experience!

 

 

Its a bit hazy but i'll try and remember everything.

Sorry for such a long post but I want this to help anyone going into a similar court situation as you really need to be fully prepared and ready for any question.

 

I'm sad to say I lost and judgement was awarded to the claimant.

The district judge wouldn't accept the argument that recon agreements can't be used pre 2007

stating that if it wasn't retrospective there would be a footnote in the case of Carey vs HSBC and it would be known to him.

 

Carey vs HSBC has nothing to do with enforcing an agreement...its with regards to complying to a section 77/78/79 request...thats why the judgement was awarded to the defendant that reconstituted versions could be acceptable in said request....so HSBC won.. Carey was the claimant nor was it anything to do with pre April 2007 agreements.

 

The key provisions of the CCA 2006, which received Royal Assent on 30 March 2006, was brought into force from April 2007 and the Act was fully implemented over a two-year period....2008.Section 127, subsections (3)-(5) of CCA 1974 have been repealed so as to give courts a discretion as to whether agreements should be deemed unenforceable. The CCA 1974 automatically renders agreements unenforceable where, for example, certain prescribed information has not been included in the agreement. So repealed from that date...not retrospective hence the April 2007 rule.

 

 

He then gave me the opportunity to show that this was the case and my warning to others is - be very prepared!

I wasn't prepared enough for that question and because I had no case in law to show him that was that. There is no case law because it wasn't changed just repealed

It was so overwhelming that I didn't push the point that s127 1&2 were repealed from CPR April 2007 onwards and just wasn't able to get my argument across. See above

I think this is where I lost it.

 

For whatever reason he didn't have a copy of my defence or witness statement (the solicitor for Hoist did have a copy),

he hadn't looked at the case prior to us going in.

 

 

He then spent 5 minutes reading my copy and then asked the claimants solicitor to counter my ws.

She showed the copied application form which he said was completely illegible but accepted her argument that you could make out my signature and the date.

 

Beggars belief if it is illegible then how could he see if the prescribed terms were all included ? and therefore unenforceable pursuant to s65(1) CCA 1974 which clearly states an improperly executed agreement can only be enforced by court order.

 

We spent a short time discussing the Mercers default notice and he checked some very large books and concluded that it was an acceptable default notice as they were acting for Barclays and he didn't know of any where in CPR or Consumer Credit Act that the notice had to be from the original creditor.

 

Section 87 CCA1974....Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a “default notice ”) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement,—

(e)to enforce any security.

 

Mercers are not a creditor...or Owner .....no licence...not party to the agreement

 

I continued to argue the point that the recon dated 2010 couldn't be acceptable as they couldn't show that the terms were the same as an original in 1994 creating an unfair relationship. The judge stated that on the balance of probabilities the agreements are similar over the years and was having none of it!...Well there is only 16 years gap...not much changed in the legislation I suppose...not!

 

The judge also made an issue of how the debt was assigned and to whom, that this is irrelevant and they have the right to the debt

to which I replied that they also have rights and responsibilities to the debtor which they haven't fulfilled under the CPR request but again to no avail.

 

"'if you use law in your argument you must be able to show the relevant points of law" so the same applies to the Judge

 

 

 

He did ask the claimants sol why there was no default date on the mercers notice

to which she replied 'well it was around that time' which he seemed to accept.

 

As above but we dont need to refer to the CCA1974 section 87(1)..lets just take their word for it that it had the prescribed period to allow you to rectify any breach..lets pretend there was a date

 

He also had a chunk of the claimants witness statement missing namely the Exhibit that contained all the notices of assignment etc and took her word for it when she said they were all in the file.

 

Well he would....got a game of golf to get to and time is running on

 

I'm a bit shell shocked to be honest as I don't think he would have accepted any argument I made and had made his mind up from the start. Agreed

 

I asked if I could appeal to give me chance to gather the evidence for the points I'd made

but he refused and then said in his written statement he'll put in that I have the right to have a circuit judge re look at his decision if I should decide to go down that path.

 

 

I mentioned that as a layperson it was difficult to argue the points to which he replied, along the lines of 'if you use law in your argument you must be able to show the relevant points of law'. As he should without referring to big books under his desk and understand the Carey Case and Reconstituted versions of agreements and the CCA2006 amendments

 

The only plus side was that he wouldn't allow them to add any interest because of their slow response to the CPR request.

The claimants solicitor also asked for her additional costs 'as the defendant had no realistic chance of defending the claim'

however the judge didn't allow this and told her that I had made some strong points and said only standard costs would be allowed.

 

It would seem they can abuse the court system,

not respond to deadlines

or provide the correct paperwork even in the room yet still win.

 

Not if you had a fair and decent Judge

 

 

She even brought a trainee into the room with her to sit at the back behind me which I found quite unsettling,

its a surreal situation that throws you off balance once in there. Then you should of objected or moved away

If there's anything I've forgotten I'll add it when the statement comes from the court.

 

 

My question now is - should I appeal to the circuit judge? (after a stiff drink and a sleep!) Little point to be honest...you could get another of the same calibre

 

Thanks guys, cam

 

Andy


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Hard lines Cam, sounds like you got shafted. If there is no date on the DN how can they prove it was served in the correct timeframe? This is where I think including every failing possible within both s87/s88 and the Schedule 2 regulations is necessary. Even if it only creates a small element of doubt you may get a reserved decision whereby the Judge looks into it properly and comes to the correct decision. I think there is a definite bias from the Deputy District Judges in these cases to the Solicitors, it's as if they think you're belittling their profession by daring to go to court without representation.

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Thanks Andy, I've had a day to get my head round it all and now I'm really frustrated and annoyed with myself but hey ho - life goes on.

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Just one of those things Cam on another day different Judge.....good experience and Im sure you will ready for any future fights.


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