UKPC PCN 11 minute over 1hrs bought ticket - The Shires Gateway, Trowbridge

[WeldersWife]

Hi

 

I've attached a PDF with information about the ticket received,

not much information on it as I've not received a NTK as yet,

but before I waste everyone's time I wanted to ask if I should even be contesting the charge.

 

In a nutshell, parked and bought my hour's ticket,

car park was pretty much empty,

my ticket was until 4.40pm,

 

parking charge issued at 4.51pm and I got back to my car at 4.52pm,

so bottom line is I was in the wrong,

 

however I think being charged £60 rising to £100 is a bit much seeing as the car park was practically empty and I wasn't hours and hours late.

 

In my mind the company has not lost £100 by me being a few minutes late to an empty car park.

 

If the general consensus is that I should suck it up and pay, then I will,

 

but if you think it's worth contesting, I'd be really grateful of advice as to how to go about it.

 

 

For windscreen tickets (NTD) please answer the following questions.

1 The date of infringement? 08/02/17

 

2 Did you appeal to the parking company? Not yet

If yes, has there been any response?

If no, have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) Did the NTK provide

photographic evidence? No NTK received as yet

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act

2012 (PoFA)

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK, did the parking company give

you any information regarding the further appeals process?

 

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever

the circumstances]

 

5 Who is the parking company? UK Parking Control Ltd

 

thanks

WeldersWife

Parking.pdf

[kingslair38]

Tough one! I was in similar situation, but UKCPS now use"money claim online" to get the courts involved. In a nutshell, I ended up having to pay

[renegadeimp]

Always contest it. They ALWAYS get something wrong. Every. Single. Time.

[dx100uk]

yes there is a 10mins grace period.

[dx100uk]

Tough one! I was in similar situation, but UKCPS now use"money claim online" to get the courts involved. In a nutshell, I ended up having to pay

 

 

mug!

[WeldersWife]

Thanks for the responses. It looks like the title of my post has been changed, but I wasn't one minute over the hour, I was 11 mins over when the charge was issued (if that makes a difference). So do I do nothing until the NTK arrives?

[renegadeimp]

yes there is a 10mins grace period.

 

MINIMUM grace period too

[dx100uk]

I never could count.............

[renegadeimp]

Thanks for the responses. It looks like the title of my post has been changed, but I wasn't one minute over the hour, I was 11 mins over when the charge was issued (if that makes a difference). So do I do nothing until the NTK arrives?

 

Correct. Do NOT do ANYTHING until the NTK arrives. As i stated, UKPC will ALWAYS, and without question, mess up on something.

[WeldersWife]

Correct. Do NOT do ANYTHING until the NTK arrives. As i stated, UKPC will ALWAYS, and without question, mess up on something.

 

Ok, thanks everyone, will sit tight till it arrives and come back with more information

[ericsbrother]

no you didnt, they rely on people paying up when they get a N1 form as that makes them more money than they get from the ticket. Every defended claim costs them £200 so they are automatically on to a loser. A decent defence is needed because the parking co's dont rely on the truth in court.

Tough one! I was in similar situation, but UKCPS now use"money claim online" to get the courts involved. In a nutshell, I ended up having to pay

[ericsbrother]

The NTK should arrive between 29 and 56 days after the date of the event.

 

UKPC now claim that the ticket on the car isnt a notice to driver so they send out the NTK at the wrong time and hope that you dont spot this giant lie. When you get the NTK come back here and we will advise what to do next. In the meanwhile dont contact them but do get some pictures of the signage at the car park and a picture of the ticket machine with its wording.

Edited February 13, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras.

[WeldersWife]

Hello again

 

I've now received the Notice To Keeper so here's the updated details:

 

1 The date of infringement? 08/02/2017

2 Have you yet to appeal to the parking company? [Y/N?] No appeal yet

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload

 

has there been a response?

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] Yes - dated 10/03/2017, received 13/03/2017

 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? Yes

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] Yes

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

 

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] NA

 

5 Who is the parking company? UKPC

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? The Shires Gateway, Trowbridge

 

Thanks, I've attached again with the barcodes blacked out

Parking 2.pdf

Parking 1.pdf

UKPC 2.pdf

[ericsbrother]

well, to use their language,

you did display a valid ticket ( alright, it had expired but that doesn't mean it wasn't valid)

There is no clause to cause a breach of the conditions that refers to expired tickets.

 

I also note a small sign just on the edge of the photo of the sign with the white background

. WE need to see that in full.

We want to see the ticket machine as well.

 

You have to show us everything in that car park that is different and also a picture of the entrance to the car park itself from the public highway.

 

We want to see what a motorist will see as they enter the place, that is most important.

[WeldersWife]

Ok, here follows several pics - these show the entrance to the car park from the main road.......

 

These show the signs and positioning on the main entrance.......

 

These show the signs at the top of the slope, the ticket machine, the main sign of which there are about 22 in the car park, and the car park itself......

 

And these are the signs next to the doors to the shops, and a sign regarding reserved spaces

 

 

Many thanks for your time in looking at them

[dx100uk]

put them all in ONE MULTIPAGE PDF.

[WeldersWife]

Ok, is this right?

Parking pics.pdf

[honeybee13]

It looks pretty good to me, WW.

 

HB

[ericsbrother]

no real indication you are being invited to enter into a contract with a third party at the entrnace and the first signs you see are not contractual but "invitations to treat"

 

 

This means that you dont have to accept the contract offered by the other signs and IF the landlored doesnt want you there they can ask you to leave or irck being a trespasser, UKPC can say nothing about this as they arent the landowner.

 

 

It all gets a bit trickier when you put your money in the parking meter as you have then accepted the contract offered by the signage on or by the meter.

 

 

Now the meter has a term that is impossible to adhere to regarding overnight parking as you cant buy a ticket the day before for the follwing day.

 

 

The sign with the tariff on it doesnt mention what happens if you stay beyond the time paid for so can you presume that you just pay for an extra hour and that is that?

Were you given that opportunity? No, they slapped a charge ticket on your car.

 

 

The sign with the tariffs AND the list of conditions doesnt contain any information about charges for a breach of those conditions and the wording is too vague to really make it something that you can consider properly with regard to an overstay.

 

 

As said before, you bought a ticket so you did have a valid ticket but it had expired and there is nothing in the terms that state that this makes the next hours worth of parking £60 instead of another £1.

 

The claim on the NTK is for parking after the expiry of a ticket purchased, there is no breach listed on their signs that mentions that this is eihter a breach or a contractual term

( ie, if you stay beyond the allotted time you agree to pay an extra £60 for the pleasure).

The NTK fails to follow the protocols of the POFA as it doesnt say who the creditor is in this case.

 

We know that UKPC manage the place because they say so

( asking for sight of that contract will be a good thing to do at POPLA)

but that is not the same as being the creditor.

 

 

You could claim that you have paid the requesite amount to the landowner

(ie stuck a quid in the post to the landowner) and that there is nothing due to them as they have no interest in the matter. The problem is they are too thick and too greedy to understand and accept that logic.

 

So, what to do?

Well, for starters I would go along with the appeals procedure and write to them appealing the charge "as UKPC have not shown there is a contractual obligation in this matter between themselves and the appellant and the same is denied. ( dont say driver/keeper or name anyone at this stage).

Therefore there cannot be a breach of contract to cause the sum claimed to be due."

 

They arent going to allow your appeal or they wont make any money and they will have to get a proper job as a window cleaner instead.

 

 

However, this then means you can appeal to POPLA with the code they are obliged to give and then you can expand on the couple of lines above with the other points .

 

 

Again, you probably wont win that appeal because POPLA is hamstrung by their contract witht he BPA but it will cost UKPC money and show that you have tried to reason with them. Ths is always a long game, not a quick fix.

[Oddfellow]

Bit insulting to window cleaners, EB. Skilled profession by comparison!

[ericsbrother]

Well, a step up for them if they want to earn an honest crust

[WeldersWife]

Many thanks for your help, it is very much appreciated.

 

 

Having read other threads, I gather I should WRITE to them rather than use the email address given on the ticket for appeals? And not actually sign my letter, just type my name? And should I include a copy of my paid-for ticket with the letter as they request?

 

 

So is the following enough for now -

 

 

 

'Their address

 

 

Date

 

Dear Sirs

 

 

Appeal re PCN Ref number XXXX

Reg number XXXX

 

 

This charge is appealed as UKPC have not shown there is a contractual obligation in this matter between themselves and the appellant and the same is denied. Therefore there cannot be a breach of contract to cause the sum claimed to be due.

 

 

 

 

My name'

 

 

Is there a likelihood I would actually at some point in the future have to appear in a court to defend this if I take an appeal all the way?

 

 

thanks again for your time

 

 

WW

[dx100uk]

if/if not it goes to court nobody can ever tell

there no set rules.

[ericsbrother]

UKPC are particularly stupid so who can tell.

 

They take people to court when they are guaranteed to lose big time and then get sued for harassment and breach of the DPA

 

but they also don't challenge POPLA appeals when they are asked awkward questions or have to reveal things they don't want to.

 

you need to play by the rules though so appeal to UKPC,

they will reject and then you appeal properly to POPLA.

 

WE will help you compose that appeal as you will be asking for more information at that stage such as sight of their contract with the landowner.

[WeldersWife]

 

So, what to do?

Well, for starters I would go along with the appeals procedure and write to them appealing the charge "as UKPC have not shown there is a contractual obligation in this matter between themselves and the appellant and the same is denied. ( dont say driver/keeper or name anyone at this stage).

Therefore there cannot be a breach of contract to cause the sum claimed to be due."

 

 

Can I just double check, at the end of my letter should I be putting my name, so they know who it's from? I have written exactly as you have quoted above in the body of the letter.

 

Thanks