UKPC white lines issue. madford retail park - ** WON AT POPLA **

[themagician]

just got notice to keeper from UKPC, ticket issued on 31/12/2016 ntc dated 02/02/2017.

 

Not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space.

 

I parked in a bay with 2 wheels on the white line not outside but on it,

this white line is approx 3 feet wide as its an end bay and the tyres were at least 1 foot away from the white line outside edge.

 

 

i had to park like this as I could not let my passengers out of the vehicle because the vehicle next to me was very close to the white line so I had restricted access.

 

Whats should be the next move against these muppets.

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

 

 

please fill out the above link

[ericsbrother]

how else will UKPC ever amke a living? Not by honest means that is for sure. I saw them up to soem tricks today, have posted a thread to explain.

[themagician]

there aint nothing to fill out???????.

[ericsbrother]

any photos of the vehicle parked "over" the lines that they are presumably claiming is the cause of their claim?

 

In the road traffic act it has been determined that the lines are part of the bay and the wheels must be wholly outside the lines to be out of the bay to earn you a PCN.

 

I wonder what code of practice they use that is better than the law in this respect?

 

If you want to play letter tennis with them you could ask them about this point

 

but as they are just a bunch of bandits they might think that this request for information is an appeal and say that it has been considered but on this occasion your appeal hasnt been accepted so now pay up or we may have to learn to read properly.

[dx100uk]

the link is in post 2 answer the questions please

and post the Q&A back here

 

 

ta

[themagician]

pic shows vehicle well within the white lines on one side,but on the other side the white line is about 3 foot wide and 2 tyres are sitting about 1 foot inside from the out edge of the white line.

[ericsbrother]

so parked within the bay as the lines are part of the bay.

They will try anything to chisel motorists.

 

Post up the NTK with your personal detaisl redacted so we can read the text. they usually get this wrong as well so cannot create a keeper liability.

[themagician]

For tickets received through the post (Notice to Keeper) please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement 31st December 2016

2 Date on the NTK 2nd February 2017

3 Date received 4th February 2017

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? yes

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

 

6 Have you appealed? no

Have you had a response?

 

7 Who is the parking company? UKPC

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure, please check here BPA

[ericsbrother]

we need to see the NTK as a scan. The wording is critical to create a keeper liability. You are not new to this forum so please help us help you.

[themagician]

sorry ericsbrother was using a pc with no word doc on it so not a good start.will put it up asap,

cheers mate.

[ericsbrother]

It will get things sorted out in our minds quicker and that means more certainty for you.

 

One of these days I am going to tout for business as a car park contracts consultant,

wear a suit, shave my head to the parking co's gorillas think I am one of them and write simple signs and charge them thousands for my words of wisdom.

 

Here is an example.

 

 

The fee for parking here is £100.

For the first 2 hours the fee is waived as long as you park in the marked bays.

 

Simple. that will be £1000 please, the wording is copyright so no nicking the idea Will and John.

 

Oh I forgot, that wont earn people stacks of money because people will understand it.

I will start again.

 

Oyez Oyez Oyez, by powers granted by his late majesty,

Charles the second and continued by his heirs and successors I

heretofore bring notice of an accord between the rightful lieges of this car park and the villains that use it.

.. good so far?

that will also be £1000 please

[themagician]

just got notice to keeper from UKPC, ticket issued on 31/12/2016 ntc dated 02/02/2017.

 

Not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space.

 

I parked in a bay with 2 wheels on the white line not outside but on it,

this white line is approx 3 feet wide as its an end bay and the tyres were at least 1 foot away from the white line outside edge.

 

i had to park like this as I could not let my passengers out of the vehicle because the vehicle next to me was very close to the white line so I had restricted access.

 

Whats should be the next move against these muppets.

 

Redacted PCN attached

 

Redacted PCN attached

 

Attachment of photo - rear view

 

Redacted PCN attached

 

Attachment of photo - rear view

 

pdf file attached

 

this was scanned on a professional copier ,hope its better now.

Parking Ticket.pdf

[honeybee13]

this was scanned on a professional copier ,hope its better now.

 

I can read it.

 

HB

[themagician]

thankyou honey bee.

[themagician]

so where do we go from here then.??.

[ericsbrother]

OK, NTK not POFA compliant for starters, read para 9 of the POFA and you will see why.

 

 

Also the wording of their so called breach of contract is very specific so is there such a contractual clause via the signage that can be directly referred to.

 

 

I would again reiterate the decisions of PATAS on this matter where it is decided that the lines are part of the bay.

 

 

In your case it is a little more interesting as it is not clear whether the markings constitute a bay or not so a definition of the bays at the site would be needed.

 

 

To help us in this matter evidence of other coloured paint on the tarmac would be helpful as white seems to indicate where it is permissible to park so if they have yellow, red or any other coloutr and possibly the words no parking then the intention would be even more clear, even if not legally defined.

 

We need to see the signage and the paint job at the site to really bury this as POPLA and even the courts are a bit baffled by the laws they are supposed to know about.

[themagician]

I waited to get my notice to keeper after I had already got the windscreen ticket.

 

as this is usually the route to go down.

 

does this alter anything.

 

pics of carpark signs will post tomorrow.

[ericsbrother]

nope, they may well shoot themselves in the foot with the wording of the NTK, comparing it to the signage is always a good thing as there may not be such a condition expressed on the sign so you cant breach it!

[themagician]

Most of the parking bays are designated with white painted lines and as in the picture they have certain red lines and yellow lines painted on entering the car park.

[ericsbrother]

so, red and yellow indicating some form of control or prohibition, white equals park here.

 

the signage is rubbish,

it starts off with saying that there is a prohibition,

then it mentions contractual matters

and finishes off with an unlwful penalty threat that not only breaches Dunlop v New Garage

but also breaches the Consumer Contract regs as an unfair condition

 

 

because id they wish to claim keeper liability it cannot be used becasue it is a term that can solely apply to the driver (at best).

 

Note th no parking on yellow lines , you did not breach that condition so there is no breach of the terms offered (if a contract and that is doubtful)

[themagician]

thanks ericsbrother,so in a nutshell how would I set out my defence first to ukpc then when refused to popla.at present im in and out the country and any help would be really appreciated.

[ericsbrother]

well, when you get the NTK we will be able to answer that better.

 

 

At the moment it is the no breach of contract that is the main argument,

the paint job making ther intent of where not to park clear and you werent in a no parking area.

 

 

The rest will be points about the size of bays and a comparison between them and what is the minimum standard for parking bays under the road traffic act.

 

 

Although off street parking has no real defined parking bay dimensions argumant about best pracitce and case law wouldnt be amiss.

 

 

Judges like to have a rference point when ther is no real law to apply to the circumstance..

[themagician]

you have already commented on ntk on thread 13 !. see pic.

[ericsbrother]

you are right, as it is labelled parking ticket I keep passing over it and looking for another

 

So, did they slap a ticket on the vehicle as there is no scan of this. Trying to work out a sequence of paperwork and cannot get the whole story in a chronological order at present.