Excel/BW claimform Bury New Road, Manchester

[Matt87]

Excellent news Karbot, congratulations!

 

I'm about to return my DQ regarding a claim in the very same car park.

 

Do you know how long it may take to get a transcript? It will obviously be very useful for me (and two others due in court for the same car park shortly!!)

[karbot]

Ok I was/am a total novice here but i will try and outline the defence i used. apparently the transcript is something that you can apply for at a cost from the court and I dont need any extra costs but it may be worth you asking Bury County court for a copy and split the costs?

 

court day:

 

Firstly the BWL team never turn up they employed a local Solicitor who had several cases on the day one of which was mine and hadn't really bothered to much getting her preparation in order. Probably the same for you. I turned up with a full ringbinder folder under my arm.. I think this made an impression on the magistrate, as the solicitor kept referring to her mobile phone for copies of my defence statement. Looked shabby.

 

make sure you supply photos and ill copy you in with some i used.

 

I also received copies of emails from the planning department confirming that there was no planning consent applied for and therefore I stated that they had ignored the planning rules.

 

The council are reluctant to say whether they needed them and would not take retrospective action as the signage had been removed anyway.

 

Get yourself a copy of the advertising and town planning online for free. There signs are too big do not conform to planning with a "deemed consent section 2". Although the magistrate said that this argument on its own may not have been enough if I have not pointed out the confusing signage around the car park.

 

I got a ticket at 7:30 pm in the evening when it was dark and wet. The shops were shut , and there was no reason for me to believe that this was a pay-and-display car park. I admitted i did not buy a ticket as i had no belief that i had a need to?

 

I said there was a van parked in front of the tickets Machine as it was in a dark corner, and the signs around the wall were not clear and not prominent. And I parked in a staff only parking bay at the rear of the TSB bank.

 

You need to send a CPR. 31.14 request for parking management with the landlord. And asked them to also show you proof of planning permission as you believe that they does not conform to

Town planning regulations. See my thread above as Ericsbro has added some great advice around this.

 

They will refuse so keep their email reply to show to the magistrate.

 

The magistrate asked the stand-in solicitor directly under what authority did XL parking have to enforce a parking charge on a car park to the stuff on the day?

 

AS NEITHER THE LANDLORD NOR THE CLAIMANT BOTHERED TO ATTEND THE SOLICITOR CANNOT GUESS OR SUGGEST ANYTHING AND HAS TO STICK TO FACTS IN THE CLAIMANTS STATEMENT.

 

 

He said the contract would stipulate what rights they had? BUT as BWL LEGAL had refused to copy me in with a copy of the contract the solicitor could not answer the question?

 

. The magistrate just shook his head. They also sent copies of photographs of car park signage that they had clearly on an achieve file which are post dating the offence. Il received these two weeks before the court case from BW legal as part of their defence statement!!. This shot themselves in the foot, as the magistrate said that the signage could have been erected after the offence and they had no evidence to suggest otherwise? He was staggered at the incompetence of these parking companies that erect signs and then do not take photos of them date stamped (hopefully they will send these to you by mistake!) as my offence was March 2015 and there photos were date stamped Aug 2015.!! - not proved!.

[karbot]

what was the date of your offence?

[Matt87]

It was a cold, dark and rainy 28/12/15.

 

Only came across this site searching for details of an 'Excel v Booth' case, mentioned on the Parking Pranster's blog. JACKPOT!!

 

I can't send you a PM (I've just tried - I'm not yet able to, being a new member) - you fancy a coffee (on me!), whilst I peruse your folder? Or do you have copies you could email??

[ericsbrother]

Matt, post up the entire sequence of events for your claim and also show us the particulars of claim on the court form. Chances are they are inadequate so you can kick off by asking for a strike out under procedural reasons and it may be that if the judge at your court reads the paperwork as it arrives you win without ever having to prepare all of your detailed defence.

 

Excel are pretty poor at just about everything and so are Gladdys/BWL and they are currently losing defended claims becuase they use a paralegal to represent them when thatperson has no right of audience ( complicated but worth reading the parking pranksters blog on this topic).

 

When we know what you have received and when and how soon you have to get things back to court we can put together a skeleton argument that will force Excel to either risk losing a small fortune or giving up. They often do the latter at short notice so expect to go all of the way with this.

 

Just because it was the same car park doent mean you will get the same judge so you argue every point that you can. You can quote other cases and use the transcript from karbot's case but it will cost you money to get it via a transcription service. Should you go down that route it is possible to get crowd funding for it.if there is a pressing point in the decision.

Edited February 10, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras.

[Matt87]

Ok, here goes...

 

I will post all my documents (Figs. 1 - 19 and photo's) here: 1drv.ms/f/s!AsLbpETb6Et3j3yADaebkkR-iXRW (just copy and paste into your address bar at the top! I can't post links, as I'm a newbie!)

 

I have tried to obscure any personal details - if I have left any, please let me know.

 

28/12/15: Visited Panama Hatty's Grill in Prestwich, Manchester and parked on an Excel car park off Bury New Road (unbeknown at the time!) It was just before 19:00, it was cold, very dark and rainy. We left just after 21:30 and found a PCN (Fig. 1) attached. Shocked, we struggled to see any signs and spent 5 minutes trying to locate the ticket machine (and a sign with text big enough to read in complete darkness!) Eventually found the ticket machine in a dark corner, and took a photo using flash (Fig. 2).

 

11/01/16: Got through the New Year and looked at the PCN in more detail - noticed a timing error (patrol officer had put "Time Seen: 21:04 and Time Issued: 19:25"), so I emailed Excel (Fig. 3) basically saying that rather than go through a lengthy appeal process, could they confirm the PCN would not be taken any further, due to the errors contained within. The email was sent from my email account, with my name at the bottom. I also, rather cheekily, emailed the landowner (Figs. 4 & 6), but received no response. At no stage did I disclose who the driver was.

 

04/02/16: My wife, as registered keeper of the vehicle, received a NTK (Fig. 5) from Excel, with a contravention time of 21:25 (even though the PCN said 19:25).

 

02/03/16: I received a letter from Excel (Fig. 7), referring to 'my appeal' received on 11/01/16. They were "now responding to me on the reasonable basis that you reside at the same address as the registered keeper". All further correspondence was addressed to me.

 

FROM THIS POINT ON, HAVING READ VARIOUS GUIDES/OPINIONS, I IGNORED EVERYTHING.

 

18/03/16 - 14/12/16: Various letters, addressed to me, from ZZPS, Wright Hassall, Excel & BW Legal (Figs. 8 - 16).

 

14/12/16: Claim Form received from Northampton CCBC (Fig. 17).

 

15/12/16: Claim acknowledged online.

 

21/12/16: Part 18 posted (1st class with proof of postage) and emailed (Fig. 18).

 

09/01/17: Defence sent via email (Fig. 19)

 

06/02/17: Received a letter from BW Legal to say that their client intends to continue with the claim.

 

07/02/17: Received a DQ from the Court

 

Will get this filled in and send one to the Court and one to BW Legal.

 

Will make a start on my witness statement, skeleton argument and collection of evidence/exhibits.

 

Also, the car park in question has recently changed from Excel to ParkingEye.

 

Aaaaaannnnnd breath! Any thoughts/ideas?

[ericsbrother]

OK, who are they suing, you or the registered keeper?

Obviously they say that as you written to them and have the same address it must be the case that you were the driver.

Not so, I lived next door to a murderer once but that doesnt mean I am a suspected murderer.

 

Depending on what your defence says you can still argue that they are chasing the wrong person and that you were merely a correspondent acting on behalf of a number of other interested parties but this shouldt be the main thrust of a defence but worth adding just to show how incompetent they are.

 

Their NTK is not compliant with teh POFA so no keeper liability created.

You do not say that you were driving at teh time so their inference is flawed to say teh least.

 

The signage is dreadful and from waht I can see still has the BPA logo on them so check out when they migated to the IPC as their signage will be invalid if it was much before these pictures taken. When did you take the photos for your evidence?

 

You will have to grab every opportunitu you can to beat this event hough some things are more obvious than others.

Copies of relevant legislation, planning applications and copy of the relevant 2007 regs plus copy of the POFA to quote where they have got it wrong. etc

 

Skeleton argument needed to just state they are suing the wrong person- no cause for action against you and that IN ANY CASE signage rubbish so no contract agreed etc.

 

Keep it brief so you cabn add things later, go into too much detail at this point and you will have no room for maneouvre later.