Council PCN... Stolen Number Plate?

[minmac]

Today I have received a PCN from Coventry Council for driving in a bus lane. I do not live in Coventry and have not been there for years and years.

 

The picture shows it was definitely my number plate so I assume it has been cloned??

I will report this to the police when I get home from work.

 

I am obviously going to dispute this but surely the council and receive disputes all day long saying it wasn't me I have not been to Coventry for over 6 years, so surely they are not just going to say 'yep ok no problem we will scrap it'.

 

Unfortunately it happened at 6.15pm so it was dark and you cannot see the colour of the car or any marks/features the car has or what make the car is.

 

Does anyone have any experience with this type of thing? What are the council likely to say?

[Michael Browne]

Yes report it to the police, make sure you get a crime ref. no. Then write to Coventry, as per your explanation above , quote the crime ref.no and request that they send you a copy of the entire video that the stills were taken from. by studying it closely you may well be able to spot differences - make, model, colour, decals etc. Where were you (and the car) at the time? can you provide any proof of that?

[king12345]

There seems to be cloned number plates up and down the country atm.

In some countries number plates are issued by dvla equivalent and have watermarks and clone proof features which reflect on camera/photos so to make them more difficult to clone.

I know it would cost more than the 15 quid you pay now for a plate, but at least it would reduce the problem.

[minmac]

Contacted police who said I've to write to coventry council with the appeal and they will investigate to see if my real car has pinged off cameras in another county.

Luckily I remember this day in detail as it was my stock take at work in Bedfordshire then I went back to Leicestershire to takemy wife to a late term pregnancy appointment in Northamptonshire. Then we drove to the town 8 miles away to collect our son from nursery and got home at 6pm, I've wrote all that in the letter to Coventrt council.

The police said I've to call them back once its been proven my plate was copied and they will issue crime number and enter the reg into their system.

Feels like its basically my word against coventrys cctv system!!!

Will wait for the councils reply.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Wtf! So the police want YOU to investigate this for them and put the file together?

Id be ringing back up and complaining that they are asking you to do their job for them!!!

[Michael Browne]

Got any receipts from that day, petrol/credit card receipts/statement? Whilst not definite proof, along with your narrative of what you were doing, where and when and never being in Coventry for years, would almost certainly persuade an Adjudicator (should it come to that), that on the balance of probabilities, the contravention did not occur(or at least not by you)

[minmac]

I did buy something in Marks and Spencer at just after 5pm in Northamptonshire. I didn't keep my receipt but if it comes to it I am sure they will have it on their system so hopefully they will print it off for me.

I did phone Marks to see if they can print off a picture from their CCTV of me and the wife at the till as it was after 5pm and wouldn't have been able to get from there to Coventry in 75 Minutes. They said they only store it for 28 days and I didn't get issued the ticket until 28 days after the offence so didn't receive it in the post until 30 days has passed so Marks didn't have the CCTV. My car was parked in the council run car park behind Marks that is shared with the post office delivery trucks so I am (nearly) positive the post office and the council will have cameras covering that car park.

Wouldn't even know where to start with trying to get hold of street CCTV so i'm off to contact my local council.

Edited February 7, 2017 by minmac
Spelling

[Michael Browne]

I didn't get issued the ticket until 28 days after the offence so didn't receive it in the post until 30 days has passed

 

The pcn should have the date of the contravention and the date of issue of the pcn. What are these dates?

 

Reason is that the pcn should be served within 28 days of the contravention.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/2757/regulation/8/made

[minmac]

Postman has just been...... with another PCN - 10 minutes after the first offence. Can see the car better in this one, its the same make and colour as my car!!!!

[minmac]

The first ticket was offence date 06/01/17 date issued 03/02/17 - Date of service 06/02/17

 

The one I have just received today is offence date 06/01/17 Date issued 06/02/17 - Date of service 08/02/17

[Michael Browne]

That makes them both unenforceable, served after 28 days. As yo can see from the link I gave, there are exceptions, but the council must apply to the DVLA within 14 days and only if the DVLA don't reply within the 28 day deadline can the 28 day rule be extended.

I suggest you send te DVLA the following:

 

Fee Paying Enquiries Section,

DVLA,

Swansea

SA99 1AJ.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Release of Information

 

This letter is not requesting personal information and so is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection legislation therefore I believe no fees are involved.

 

As your records will show I am the Registered Keeper of vehicle index XXXXX.

 

I require you to send me the dates and times of queries against my VRN XXXXX issued by yyyyy council since nn/xxxx/nnnn.

 

I also require the dates and times of the matching responses that you provided to yyyyy council.

 

Yours,

etc

[unclebulgaria67]

Postman has just been...... with another PCN - 10 minutes after the first offence. Can see the car better in this one, its the same make and colour as my car!!!!

 

There was a case reported in the Daily Mail yesterday, where someone parked a silver Ford Kuga next to an identical Ford Kuga with the same registration plate. They called the Police immediately and it was found that other Kugas driver had got hold of the registration plate deliberately matching another similar car. They were using it to commit crimes.

 

So a PCN might not be the only issue you might face, so important that the Police fully log this issue, tracking this other car as soon as possible.

[minmac]

Just off the phone to the police for the 3rd time. First time they were not interested and said as above. Today I called Leicestershire police (as thats the county I live in) and they were not interested and said i'd have to contact Northamptonshire police (I live right on the border of Leicestershire and Northamptonshire and its Northants police who look after my area) again they were not interested at all and only because I forced the issue they agreed to give me a crime number but basically said its up to Coventry Council to investigate it not the police.

Not very happy about the police forces view on this at all.

[minmac]

Thank You, sending it today.

[unclebulgaria67]

Just off the phone to the police for the 3rd time. First time they were not interested and said as above. Today I called Leicestershire police (as thats the county I live in) and they were not interested and said i'd have to contact Northamptonshire police (I live right on the border of Leicestershire and Northamptonshire and its Northants police who look after my area) again they were not interested at all and only because I forced the issue they agreed to give me a crime number but basically said its up to Coventry Council to investigate it not the police.

Not very happy about the police forces view on this at all.

 

Make a complaint to your local MP. If you search online, you will find the email address for their local constituency office.

 

If you have a car driving around on false plates, they are probably involved in commiting crimes, which the Police might be able to stop.

[Michael Browne]

Thank You, sending it today.

 

In your reps to the council, along with serving the pcn after 28 days being unenforceable, I would also ask them when they applied to DVLA for your details and when the DVLA responded. Be interesting to see if the dates correspond with the DVLA's

[king12345]

Just off the phone to the police for the 3rd time. First time they were not interested and said as above. Today I called Leicestershire police (as thats the county I live in) and they were not interested and said i'd have to contact Northamptonshire police (I live right on the border of Leicestershire and Northamptonshire and its Northants police who look after my area) again they were not interested at all and only because I forced the issue they agreed to give me a crime number but basically said its up to Coventry Council to investigate it not the police.

Not very happy about the police forces view on this at all.

 

I wonder if they're gonna use their favourite punchline "civil matter"...

Who's responsible to prevent crime?

[Michael Browne]

It seems Coventry are so disorganised that they habitually apply to the DVLA after 14 days. There's a few threads on Pepipoo.

 

In this one they phoned the council who confirmed they were late applying for keepers details and cancelled the pcn;

 

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=111723

[minmac]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I received a letter from Cov council two days ago saying they believe my timeline of events from the day and have cancelled both tickets. Nothing else.

 

The week before I received these tickets I had bought a new car and the garage took my old car, I wonder if the new owner or the garage has been getting any tickets. If they are or do I hope they have better luck with the police than I have had with this. They literally didnt want to know.

[ericsbrother]

of course, it could just be that their ANPR isnt fit for purpose and no human intervention took place before the demand was sent out.