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    • March 23: As the coronavirus crisis escalates, the UK is placed into lockdown with strict limitations on travel. The Government guidelines state: “You should not be visiting family members who do not live in your home.” The prime minister tells the UK public they "must stay at home". People are warned not to meet friends or family members they do not live with. Those with symptoms had already been told to self-isolate     Friday 27 March: Downing Street On the day Cummings ran out of No 10, his wife, Mary Wakefield, appears to have been already ill, according to her Spectator article about the experience, in which she says: “My husband did rush home to look after me.”   Both Boris Johnson and Health Secretary Matt Hancock test positive for coronavirus, while chief medical officer Chris Whitty says he has symptoms of the disease and is self-isolating.   Mr Cummings said: "I suddenly got a call from my wife who was looking after our four-year-old child. She told me she suddenly felt badly ill." He went home and after a couple of hours his wife felt better and he returned to work. "There were many critical things at work and she asked me to return [to work] in the afternoon and I did." He then "drove up to Durham that night arriving at roughly midnight" with his family.     In spectator articles on 24th and 25th April * Wakefield (wife) wrote in the spectator that Cummings said “I feel weird” and collapsed 24 hours after he came home to look after her * She went on to explain that for the next 10 days “Dom couldn’t get out of bed. Day in, day out for ten days he lay doggo with a high fever and spasms that made the muscles lump and twitch in his legs.” * Cummings wrote that “at the end of March and for the first two weeks of April I was ill, so we were both shut in together.” * The following days, by Wakefield’s account, were a mixture of family idyll and health nightmare, as she made a “palace out of polystyrene packaging” with their son … even as Cummings’s breathing got so bad that she feared he should be in hospital. But 10 days after her husband first fell ill, she said, he began to feel better – just as Boris Johnson went into hospital. That would place the improvement in his condition around Sunday 5 April,     Sat March 28th Is apparently the day Cummings said “I feel weird” and collapsed 24 hours after he came home to look after her His wife went on to explain that for the next 10 days “Dom couldn’t get out of bed. Day in, day out for ten days he lay doggo with a high fever and spasms that made the muscles lump and twitch in his legs.” Cummings wrote that “at the end of March and for the first two weeks of April I was ill, so we were both shut in together.” 10 days from March 28th – would take us to the 7th April.   Mon March 30: Downing Street confirms Mr Cummings is suffering from coronavirus symptoms and is self-isolating.   Tuesday 31 March/1st April: Durham The police have said that on 31 March they were “made aware of reports” of Cummings’s presence in the area and had then contacted the family to “reiterate the appropriate advice around essential travel”.   2 April: During the night, Mr Cummings' four-year-old son "threw up and had a bad fever". Following medical advice, an ambulance took the child to hospital. He was accompanied by Mr Cummings' wife   3 April: Mr Cummings' son spent the night in hospital and woke up the next day having "recovered". He was tested for coronavirus and his mother, who was with him at the hospital, was told "they should return home". According to Mr Cummings, there were no taxis so he "drove to the hospital, picked him up and returned home". He said he "did not leave the car or have any contact with anybody on this short trip".   Sunday 5 April: The ‘Abba’ sighting (despite claims of ten days where he couldn’t get up with a high fever) Cummings alledgedly seen in Garden with AbbA blaring But 10 days after her husband first fell ill, she said, he began to feel better – just as Boris Johnson went into hospital. Which would place the improvement in his condition around Sunday 5 April, … Although the claimed 10 days after the 28th – the earliest point at which Cummings was said to have been symptomatic – would be the 7 April. The Guardian approaches Downing Street about the story, only to be told by a spokesman: “It will be a no comment on that one.” Mr Cummings said "after I started to recover, one day in the second week, I tried to walk outside the house". He confirmed he, his wife and his son went for a walk into woods owned by his father and it was at this point he was seen by passers-by but his family "had no interaction with them". The exact date is not clear but his second week isolating in Durham would have between 4-11th   6 April: At some point in the week leading up to this date, Mr Cummings discussed his decision to travel to Durham with the prime minister. "When we were both sick and in bed," he said, "I mentioned to him what I had done. Unsurprisingly given the condition we were in, neither of us remember the conversation in any detail."   Fri April 10: Number 10 is again contacted for comment regarding Mr Cumming’s trip by the Guardian. Instead of defending the journey, officials declined to comment.   Fri 10th/Sat 11th April: The 14-day period of Cummings’s isolation would have expired on 10/11th April, assuming it is counted from when Wakefield appears to have first fallen ill on 27 March or when Cummings fell ill 24 hours later.   11 April: Believing he had recovered by this date, albeit "feeling weak and exhausted", Mr Cummings said he "sought expert medical advice". "I explained our family's symptoms and all the timings and asked if it was safe to return to work on Monday or Tuesday, seek childcare and so on. I was told that it was safe and I could return to work"   Sunday 12 April: Barnard Castle Wakefield’s birthday, according to Companies House records – they allegedly made a trip to Barnard Castle, a charming town 30 miles from the Cummings’s family property, described on the English Heritage website as having “fantastic views” and “plenty to do for families on a day out”. That detail emerged in an interview with Robin Lees, a retired chemistry teacher who lives in the town. Lees, who says he has a photographic memory, told the Guardian he was “a bit gobsmacked” to see Cummings, and then was so incensed that he made a note of the family car’s numberplate and checked it online when he got home. Cummings acknowledges he drove to Barnard Castle, 30 miles from his parents' home in Durham, with his wife and child. He explained this episode as needing to test his driving was fine before making the long drive back to London. He said he'd been having problems with his vision   Tuesday 14 April: London The Guardian asked Wakefield to confirm whether the family had been in London throughout the lockdown period, but received no reply. Cummings was photographed back in Downing Street on 14 April   Sunday 19 April: ‘bluebell’ woods - Cummings and Wakefield in Houghall woods? Could Cummings have then gone back to the north-east from London? Downing Street is emphatic that he did not. The denial came after another witness claimed to the Guardian and Sunday Mirror that they had seen Cummings and Wakefield on a country walk in Houghall Woods, a beauty spot near his parents’ property in Durham. According to this account, Cummings said: “Aren’t the bluebells lovely?” Cummings says he did not return to Durham   Monday 20 April Cummings seen in London again   May 23: Downing Street statement: “Owing to his wife being infected with suspected coronavirus and the high likelihood that he would himself become unwell, it was essential for Dominic Cummings to ensure his young child could be properly cared for.” The statement said: “At no stage was he or his family spoken to by the police about this matter, as is being reported. “His actions were in line with coronavirus guidelines. Mr Cummings believes he behaved reasonably and legally.” Speaking outside his home, Mr Cummings reiterated: “I behaved reasonably and legally”. When a reporter suggested to him that his actions did not look good, he replied: “Who cares about good looks? “It’s a question of doing the right thing. It’s not about what you guys think.” Later at the daily Downing Street briefing, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said Mr Cummings had the PM’s “full support” and that Mr Johnson “knew that he was unwell and that he was in lockdown”. Mr Shapps said it had always been permissible for families to travel to be closer to their relatives as long as they “go to that location and stay in that location”. Meanwhile, deputy chief medical officer for England, Dr Jenny Harries, said that travelling during lockdown was permissible if “there was an extreme risk to life”, with a “safeguarding clause” attached to all advice to prevent vulnerable people being stuck at home with no support.   Health Secretary Matt Hancock and Chancellor of the Exchequer Rishi Sunak have tweeted their support for Mr Cummings.   Education Secretary Gavin Williamson said on Monday morning that Mr Cummings had "set out absolutely clearly and absolutely categorically he didn't break the rules and didn't break the law". The attorney general, Suella Braverman, tweet on Saturday in which she quoted the full text of the No 10 statement on Boris Johnson’s chief aide in which the prime minister said he had behaved “responsibly and legally”.   (Disgraceful) Boris Johnson said at the weekend Cummings acted “responsibly and legally and with integrity”   “The PM’s risible defence of Cummings is an insult to all those who have made such sacrifices to ensure the safety of others,” said Johne Inge, the bishop of Worcester, on Twitter.   “What planet are they on?” asked a front page headline in the Daily Mail, an influential right-wing paper usually supportive of Johnson.   https://descrier.co.uk/politics/dominic-cummings-and-wife-tried-to-cover-up-lockdown-breach-in-articles-for-the-spectator/   https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/24/dominic-cummings-timeline-what-we-know-about-his-movements   https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/uk/timeline-the-coronavirus-lockdown-and-dominic-cummings-trip-to-durham/   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52784290   https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/25/attorney-general-faces-calls-to-resign-defends-dominic-cummings-suella-braverman   https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain-cummings/what-planet-are-they-on-no-respite-for-johnson-and-aide-idUKKBN2310UE   https://cyprus-mail.com/2020/05/25/what-plant-are-they-on-press-slams-johnson-and-cummings/
    • simply tell them on the phone writing only sorry as I might want to escalate this to the fos or court. sorry but no speaky..speaky   you night find this interesting?   https://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/jun/09/life-insurance-misselling-aviva-hamilton-life   dx
    • I've had a few missed calls and then text from RBS wanting to talk about the letter I sent, two posts up.    Am I best to wait for them to write? Didn't really want to get into a discussion with them about it ideally!
    • I haven’t even looked.  I doubt some PR bod would have been in the loop.
    • Gove will be rubbing his little hands together in glee. He been quite careful in his limited wording in 'supporting demonic. but he poo'd his own pot a bit with that priority preferential test   No confidence vote (in PM not party).
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I received a phone call today from my previous council,

the gentleman said he called me with regards to my very old address dating back to 1999-2004.

 

 

I was a student then and found the flat through a normal Estate Agents,

signed the Tenancy Agreement and moved in.

 

 

Today, 2017, four children later

I get a phone call from the council enforcement team informing me that I owe over £4000.00 in BUSINESS RATES.

 

 

I was never informed that it was an "office" I was living in and to my total amazement they even took to me to court and I have a liability order from 2005.

This is approx a year after moving out.

 

 

I wasn't the only tenant,

there was a gentleman above me in another flat

and they built yet another flat in the loft when I moved out.

 

 

My flat had a bathroom with a bath and a kitchen and looked nothing like an office.

 

 

My LL at the time informed me that I wouldn't have to pay council as I was a student and it would have been included anyway.

 

The gentleman from the council informed me that I am 100% liable and even though landlord or estate agent deceived me.

I am in total shock and feel that I have no choice other than to start to pay this huge amount.

 

There weren't any letters chasing the so called Business Rates throughout my time there

and all correspondence from Landlord stated My name, then, First Floor Flat, 33 So-called Road and Postcode.

 

 

Unfortunately I don't have more than 3 letters after that many years and I feel well and truly confused.

The man also informed me that their records only go back 7 years so they will not be able to investigate nor look further into it as "the Law of the Land" (his words) has already decided that I am liable.

 

Does anyone know why landlords would do this?

What do I do? I have 7 days to respond

 

Please advice or wake me up from this nightmare :noidea::frosty:

 

Please let me know if I need to post this in another section, unsure and new to this.

Edited by Elli Bee
Addition

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Register a formal complaint with the council concerned and send them a Data Protection Subject Access Request for copies of all records that relate to you.

 

Once they got a liability order, they don't expire as such. If you register a formal complaint, then the council should put it on hold, while investigations are carried out.


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Ok thank you I will do that! The gent made it sound very final, relieved to find that liability orders do not expire. I will inform the council contact a day after I have contacted the court.

 

I wonder if you can even chase business rates if there wasn't an actual business there.

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so where you were was subject to business rates

they've obviously gone after everyone that lived in the 'property' anf failed.

 

 

as you lived there, yes you are jointly liable, but if you were a student..no dice surely?

 

 

I've moved this to residentials


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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and if you call, try record calls if poss

and speak to the councils c'tax office management rather than the call centre.

could there be any recourse against the Lord and/or estate agent?


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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Yes Im going to try the estate agent who still exist albeit in a different borough, wish me luck on that one.

 

One the upside one of the letters I dug out was a solicitors letter "requiring possession" due to LL selling the house, and it quoted a Section 21 of the HOUSING Act, which from I understand covers residential property.

 

Thank you all! I will keep you updated, any more wise words welcomed.

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as you know, it (s21)covers AST's

AST's cant be re a business tenancy


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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Ok please advise, what is an AST?

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Ok please advise, what is an AST?

assured shorthold tenancy


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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Assured shorthold Tenancy :)

 

Thanks for that!

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if then you have proof of the s21, then that wld add to negating any business liability. then, being a full time student cld negate any residential c'tax liability.

as dx said, sometimes, they just take a name given and pursue it.

as mentioned, if you are going to phone, record and speak to management. good luck.


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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Hi Elli Bee

 

Yup get a Subject Access Request into the Council (check there website as well) you do need all the information they hold on you.

 

Also as pointed out Formal Complaint to the Council as well now and forward copies of what you still hold on the tenancy (even that letter mentioning the S21 and anything else you find)

 

As it's Business Rates does anything actually mention the Business name at the time?


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Thats the thing Stu007 no mention of a Business name.

 

All correspondence looks like this:

 

My Name

First Floor Flat

So called Road

London p0st cd3

 

Contacted the Estate Agent and they have records back to 2000 not 1999 :(

 

Have sent of an Subject Access Request regarding the Order against me. Waiting to hear back.

 

I had two landlords as property was sold but I stayed on. One LL is a Charity Fund and the other LL is now a politician in Australia. They obviously have give up on chasing them as some you mentioned.

 

Good news is that the 2nd page of the possession order letter I have clearly states: .....property let on a periodic assured tenancy..... but thay have slightly misspelt my name by one letter, wonder if they will use this.

 

 

Who do I send the proof letters to? The council officer handling my case? Do I wait till I have more material from the Subject Access Request.

 

The council have a timescale of 40 days to respond to the SAR and council officer has given me 7 days.

Edited by Elli Bee

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Why don't you find out from this council officer, the head of council tax revenues name and address of council office.

 

Then send a written complaint by recorded delivery, starting, i wish to register a formal compaint in regard to a council tax liability in respect of (address xxxxxxxxxxxx) dating back to 2005. I received a phone call from a council officer named xxxxxx and this is the first time i have ever heard of this matter.

 

Then give more details about the situation and that you have never received any summons in regard to council tax liability.

 

Tell them that it is your intention to involve the Local Government Ombudsman if necessary to seek their assistance.

 

Once you register this formal complaint, they should putbany enforcement on hold.


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any worrying stories about the politico in Oz that you can see via google? If they were in the wrong letting the place as residential at the time then they may want to hear about it before their enemies do

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...If they were in the wrong letting the place as residential at the time.. .
could be. not telling the council and thus avoiding separate c'tax (in addition to the business rates) for the part residential.

and then the deemed 'occupier' of the business premises being made liable.

and, they did a 'formal' s21...!?


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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If the property was used as a residential dwelling then it should not be rated for business rates, it should be banded for council tax. The valuation office can backdate the start of a council tax banding in order to update the council tax list. I suspect there's a hole can of worms to be opened here.

 

What I suspect is happening is that it has never been banded for council tax, they have been given your name and so they have proceeded with the property as a non-domestic case. You need to contact them and advise that the property was domestic for the period in question and it should then proceed from there.

 

Whether you're then liable for council tax depends partly on the valuation office - if the property has been treat as one dwelling and the 'flats' have not been banded individually then the property would be a council tax HMO and the landlord would be liable. If the 'flat' was regarded as a dwelling in it's own right then you would be liable with a possible student exemption.

 

When the original liability order (and supporting docs) were issued they only needed to be sent to the last known address to be served correctly. The court will grant the liability order based on the summons and this confirms the monies are due in the eyes of the law. For business rates there is no formal route of liability appeal as there is with council tax and the council call the shots a lot more - the better news is that if the valuation office agency remove a property from the council tax list then it cannot be a non-domestic property for the same time period. To dispute a business rates liability order can involve a high court appeal.

 

You can appeal to the valuation tribunal on the basis of valuation and whether or not a property is a domestic dwelling - this would, if successful, remove business rates listing and shift it to council tax.

 

The Local Government Ombudsman is not a binding party - they can only make a recommendation. They cannot get involved in matters requiring interpretation or application of legislation - it sounds like the council have , based on the information held, proceeded correctly so far so there is no failing on their part in that respect (not yet, anyway) to be looked at.

 

Craig

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20 years ago LL/owner could have vol elected for VAT Registration on part/all of premises for financial reasons. For several years, small business rates were not demanded (exempt) until new business rates were assessed and demands sent out recently.

Check current status with LVA & Council.

Consider Change of use Planning Application for Residential Use.

Some properties had storage space above the shop, many later converted to accom and domestic rate/C Tax assessed.

Someone slipped up somewhere along the line and VOA are optimising recovery of all due Bus Rates.

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Mariner51: The flat is currently being let and advertised as a flat and as far as I know still with the same owners, however unable to check properly with land registry. I have been racking my head to find out what the LL benefit would be to let it as residential for years! Estate agents and both solicitors for each landlord were under the impression the property was residential.

 

@ericsbrother: The politician in Aus was indeed sacked from his job as elected Mayor. He is a colourful character with history in UK making millions.

 

Eric, thanks for your insightful post. I too expect a 'can of worms', dreading the process.

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you will need to get the tenancy confirmed in writing from agents. However, there is a bad precedent hanging over all of this that I recall from this forum regarding a similar situation. The courts decided that once someone has a liability order against them the actual reason and the mechanism for obtaining that order is no longer subject to question so you could end up in a position where all parties agree that it was wrong and is unfair but it is still enforceable because it wasnt challenged at the time ( well no-one knew about it but that doesnt matter either)

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