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stephen7

Unviversal Credit CCJ, Sold to paragon , now Arrows and restons

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I won't go into details,

 

 

but 10 years ago i was in financial straits and ended up with a ccj for a personal loan.

 

 

i offered, and the court accepted a payment of £10.00 per month.

as i began to get straight i voluntarily increased this to £20.00.

hoping to clear it quicker.

 

 

the loan company( universal credit) was then taken over by paragon finance who continued to accept the £20.00.

 

 

I have received a letter from them saying it had been passed on to another company.

the letter they sent me showed a balance owing of nearly £6,000.

as the original ccj was for only £3,000 and i have always paid every month,

 

 

i can only assume they have been charging me interest, without informing me.

Are they within their rights to do this?

is there anything i can do about it?

 

by the way, the new company want me to take out a secured loan to pay them off.

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Hi stephen I am not 100% on this but myview is that they can only get back what is stipulated on the original claim - I would pay what is on the claim and not one penny more they are probably trying it on??

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Guest sihum

firstly don't do it. Do not get your self into more debt.

 

you need to look at the tems of your original ccj - if you still have any paperwork after 10 years.

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thanks,

not sure if i still have the original ccj. 10 years is a long time.

if not, is there any way i can get hold of a copy?

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Guest sihum

not sure - you might be able to get one from the court the ccj was originally issued at.

 

I also didnt think they could pass it on once under a ccj. Who have paragon passed it on to ?

 

I would ask for the original signed credit agreement from the dca thats hassling you now, under section 77 of the CCA1974.

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hi,

paragon have passed it on to arrow global receivables management, who, in turn, have instucted cbs transcom to collect the debt.

 

 

the have requested £50.00 per month

( i have paid the first month, the next payment due next week)

 

 

however, i have only just received another letter from arrow instructing me to contact another company, ref the debt.

 

 

i did so yesterday, which was when i found out the full amount they say i owe. this other company ( black&white.co.uk) turned out to be a loan co. and want me to take out a loan to pay arrow off, with a fee, of course, something i have no intention of doing.

 

will contact cbs transcom today.

ref original credit agreement and search for the ccj.

stephen7

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MANY paragon agreements have an interest after judgment clause, these are quite rare and paragon would have had to specifically requested interest after judgment on the claimform, a CCA request would be ideal to find out this for sure.

 

It would be difficult to get a copy of the original judgment as courts usually keep the paperwork for 6 years. it is worth a try though!

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hi,

i have never signed any agreement with paragon,

the original loan was with uninversal credit.

( whom i presume was taken over by paragon) not sure what a CCA request is, either.

 

I have, fortunately, found the original CCJ, total amount, including costs were for £3900.

 

In the small print, it says interest may only be added if the judgement was for over £5000.

 

i have contacted cbs transcom requesting a copy of the original agreement,

they informed me it would take 4 - 6 weeks,

 

 

i presume it is only a matter of waiting now, or would it be better to get in touch with paragon directly?

 

as they have now ( i presume, sold) the account to arrow, probably won't want to know.

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hi,

i have never signed any agreement with paragon, the original loan was with uninersal credit.( whom i presume was taken over by paragon) not sure what a CCA request is, either.

 

a cca request is a request for info under the consumer credit act. This act is almoset certainly the one which regulated the agreement you originally signed. under the act you can send a creditor £1 and request the agreement plus a full statement of account to be sent. if they do not do this in 12 days from when the receive it, the debt would be unenforceable.

 

I have, fortunately, found the original CCJ, total amount, including costs were for £3900.

In the small print, it says interest may only be added if the judgement was for over £5000.

superb! you now know they are trying their luck.

 

the £1 request under the CCA gives you the ability to request a full breakdown, you should easily be able to get to the bottom of what's happening. good luck :)

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IMO, I would risk the tenner and send a SAR aswell, just to be on the safe side.


All help is merely my opinion only - please seek legal advice if you need to as I am only qualified in SEN law.

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thanks for that,

i have a template for the cca request and will be sending that off today,

( hopefully a p/order will suffice, having read other threads, i am a little wary of signing anything

( now worried about other letters i have written to them)

 

i presume, as cbs transcom are the ones collecting the money, they are the ones to send it to?

 

does the debt being " unenforcable "

mean what i think it means,

and if so, is that the whole debt or just what i am disputing?

 

does they above also apply to a SAR ?

 

is there a SAR template on here anywhere?

 

thanks

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Hello,

 

You will find all letters that your may need in the Bank Template letters.

 

this is the sar

1. Data Protection Act, Subject Access Request letter - List of charges

 

You will need to amend it to your own details

Good luck


If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

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I think but dont jump up and down on me if I am wrong but there is 2 points here.

 

1. The CCj will have said exactly how much you have to pay whether it is £10 PM or whatever. They can not tell you they want more and can do nothing about it as long as you carry on paying the order.

 

2. The CCA request while would advise of the interest on the account after judgement, if they could not produce the document, they still have the CCJ so this would now supercede the Credit Agreement


Whatever I post is my opinion and should be taken as such, an opinion. While it is what I believe and is offered in good faith, it should not be taken as a statement of truth

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MANY paragon agreements have an interest after judgment clause, these are quite rare and paragon would have had to specifically requested interest after judgment on the claimform, a CCA request would be ideal to find out this for sure.

 

It would be difficult to get a copy of the original judgment as courts usually keep the paperwork for 6 years. it is worth a try though!

 

One thing to consider is that even if the credit agreement says interest following judgement, that isn't part of the judgement (I think), so the "judgement debt" is for whatever is on the judgement.

 

The different is that they can enforce the judgement amount, not the interest. It may be the case that they would have to sue you again for the interest and then produce all the paperwork to prove the case (difficult after 10 years) and you could even try and argue that it was a different debt and that the Limitation Act could apply as you haven't been aware of it for over 6 years (you've been paying off the judgement).

 

When you say "small print" on the judgement about interest only above £5K. Is this small print the actual document itself, or the written parts added by the plaintiff. So is this a feature of all judgements.

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When you say "small print" on the judgement about interest only above £5K. Is this small print the actual document itself, or the written parts added by the plaintiff. So is this a feature of all judgements.

 

this "small print" is actually part of the document, i wouldn't know if it is a feature of all judgments, plus, this judgement was in 1998, maybe things have changed since then, if they have, would that affect this judgement, or is it still binding?

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I won't go into details, but 10 years ago i was in financial straits and ended up with a ccj for a personal loan. i offered, and the court accepted a payment of £10.00 per month. as i began to get straight i volunterily increased this to £20.00. hoping to clear it quicker. the loan company( universal credit) was then taken over by paragon finance who continued to accept the £20.00. I have received a letter from them saying it had been passed on to another company. the letter they sent me showed a balance owing of nearly £6,000. as the original ccj was for only £3,000 and i have always paid every month, i can only assume they have been charging me interest, without informing me. Are they within their rights to do this?

is there anything i can do about it?

by the way, the new company want me to take out a secured loan to pay them off.

 

Don't take out a loan, in fact they cannot ask you to do anything ot pay this debt other than what was agreed in the terms of the CCJ - so anything over £10 per month for them is a bonus.

 

[

quote=stephen7;719065]hi,

I have, fortunately, found the original CCJ, total amount, including costs were for £3900.

In the small print, it says interest may only be added if the judgement was for over £5000.

quote]

This is correct - only pay the £3900

 

a cca request is a request for info under the consumer credit act. This act is almoset certainly the one which regulated the agreement you originally signed. under the act you can send a creditor £1 and request the agreement plus a full statement of account to be sent. if they do not do this in 12 days from when the receive it, the debt would be unenforceable.

 

:)

 

This debt has already been enforced so lack of original agreemnt doesn't apply here.

 

IMO, I would risk the tenner and send a SAR aswell, just to be on the safe side.

 

Well not really a risk, but sensible move - you will then find out what you have paid, what you owe, and what the increased balance is.


Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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This debt has already been enforced so lack of original agreemnt doesn't apply here.

 

 

i know, i wanted to see if there was an interest after judgment clause within the terms which would allow the creditor to chase for more money and possibly bring another claim.

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i know, i wanted to see if there was an interest after judgment clause within the terms which would allow the creditor to chase for more money and possibly bring another claim.

 

Wouldn't be valid unless it was written into the judgement.


Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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as the old grey matter isn't what it used to be, can i just confirm exactly where i stand with this ( as i understand it).

 

1. pointless sending a CAA, as the debt has already benn enforced with the CCJ.?

 

2. sending a SAR will only confirm what they say i owe? ( but doing it will give written proof of what i have paid)

 

3. I really only owe the £3,900 less what i have already paid?

 

4. theoretically, i could still only pay the original £10.00 per month,

is i so desired? ( will pay as much as i can as i want to clear it off ASP )

 

is my understanding of the situation correct?

cheers

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YEs , and in addition point 2 will show what interest & charges they have added.


Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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Wouldn't be valid unless it was written into the judgement.

 

good point!

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gizmo111,

thanks for that,

to bend your ear a little further,

 

 

i presume the company to send the SAR to,

would be arrow global receivables management,

as they have ( i presume ) purchased the debt from paragon.

or would it be cbstranscom as they sre the ones i am now currently paying?

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To get a full picture you would probably ahve to do all 3 that have collected since the CCJ


Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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thanks for that, will send off this week, see if their total ties in with the receipts i have

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Wouldn't be valid unless it was written into the judgement.

 

But are we sure about that. Is there some sneaky trick to say that while they have a judgement for x amount, they can continue accumulating interest into a separate debt which they can claim upon.

 

A CCA would at least show whether such a clause was written into the original agreement or not, and if so, it's legality could be examined. For the cost of a pound, it saves a lot of potential headache further down the line.

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