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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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ESA, PIP and SDP


coggy67
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Hi guys.

 

Ive been on IB since 2001 and was moved to contribution based esa about 4-5 yrs ago.

 

For the last 3yrs ive been receiving pip at the enhanced rate.

 

ive only just found out about EDP and SDP .

 

Ive been doing some searching, and is it right that i can only claim for these if im on ESA(IR)? ..

.. and if so, how do i go about this?

 

At no stage since 2001 have i had any assets or any savings even close to 6k so i dont even understand why im on ESA(CB) and not IR.

 

My searches suggest i need an IS10 form,

which i rang the DWP for,

but now Im reading that i need an ESA3 form...is that right?

 

The guy i spoke to at the DWP said he didnt think it mattered what type of esa im on, but he wasnt convincing, especially considering what ive read since...

..please help, im so confused. This is an awful lot of money i *could* be due and would really help.

 

thanks, Darren

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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thanks Dx.

I have to admit I went through the links on page 1, which didn't really answer my questions, before my brain turned to complete mush!

...the result of my thick brain trying too hard for too long i guess lol

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The type of ESA does matter, and that's why you need to start with an ESA3 form.

 

No premiums are available to ESA© claimants, and if you were migrated to ESA from IB, that is probably what you will be. So ask for and complete the ESA3, making a full claim to ESA(IR). Once this is done and processed, you should be sent form IS10 automatically (although that doesn't always happen the way it should, so expect that you may have to chase that) and your entitlement to the SDP will be considered.

 

As background information, there are quite a few people who have been caught up in situations like yours and I know that some welfare rights advocates have been pushing on this issue. Basically, you were not considered for ESA(IR) because you have what's called a "conversion award" - that is, you were moved to ESA from IB, which is a contributory benefit. Of course, the problem with these awards is that while you got a contributory benefit 16 years ago, that doesn't mean you would not meet the IR conditions today. It seems unfair that you were not considered for ESA(IR) when you were moved to ESA, but here we are. I can write more about this if you want, but I don't want to swamp you with gibberish: basically what you need to do is get the ESA3 form in ASAP and take it from there.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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Many thanks Antone! my benefit is broken down as follows:

 

your living expenses £73.10

extra money for being in support group £36.20

 

your income-related amount is £109.30

However because you are entitled to CBESA

we will pay you £112.05

 

 

top up payment to ensure no reduction

due to move to ESA £2.75

 

 

would i be right in that none of that is IRESA?

 

sorry for all the questions...

....oh, and just to muddy the waters a little more i received ESA50 for reassesment on Jan 4th which was sent back yesterday. Strange as i was reassesed for PIP only a few months ago and had it extended with no problems...

Edited by coggy67
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None of that is IR. You have transition protection, meaning you don't lose when you got transferred over.

 

Support group with the EDP top up is £125.05 a week and with the SDP it's roughly £186 per week.

 

 

Thanks, thats pretty much what i thought, but was thrown a little by the "income related" reference. Have phoned the DWP for an ESA3 form. Apparently they sent me one in 2013 but never received it back. Strange as I always send my forms back using first class recorded delivery...

 

The guy from the DWP i spoke to yesterday not only got his facts wrong, but never sent out the IS10 anyway, theres a note on their system showing i rang but nothing else.

 

Can't help thinking that trying to claim 3yrs backpay is going to count against me with my reassesment :-(

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Have phoned the DWP for an ESA3 form. Apparently they sent me one in 2013 but never received it back. Strange as I always send my forms back using first class recorded delivery...

 

Morning coggy67,

 

I've uploaded the ESA3 form on the forum for download. It's printable.

 

You can download it here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?439890-Esa3-(Current-as-at-Jan-2015)

 

Like I said, its printable but bear in mind it is 52 pages long.

 

Kind regards

 

CookeRocks

CookieRocks

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Thanks Cookie! maybe its my browser, but when i go to your link there doesnt seem to be anything to actually click on (?)

Anyhow, Ive seen an example ESA3 online, and it seems that the only evidence they ask for is if your over the threshold (page 48)....which seems a little strange

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Many thanks Antone! my benefit is broken down as follows:

 

your living expenses £73.10

extra money for being in support group £36.20

 

your income-related amount is £109.30

However because you are entitled to CBESA

we will pay you £112.05

 

 

top up payment to ensure no reduction

due to move to ESA £2.75

 

 

would i be right in that none of that is IRESA?

 

sorry for all the questions...

....oh, and just to muddy the waters a little more i received ESA50 for reassesment on Jan 4th which was sent back yesterday. Strange as i was reassesed for PIP only a few months ago and had it extended with no problems...

 

Right, so since (at present) your ESA© entitlement exceeds your ESA(IR) entitlement, that's what you get. But your IR entitlement including the SDP would be higher than your C amount. The other thing is that since you apparently have been considered for an IR award, you may not need to submit an ESA3. I would complete and send an IS10 form and see what they say. Maybe they'll insist on the ESA3, but trying the IS10 will only cost the price of a stamp.

 

As far as the ESA50 goes, that's unfortunate. But the PIP assessment and the ESA one are not connected to each other, so you could be awarded PIP one week and still have to do an ESA assessment the next.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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Right, so since (at present) your ESA© entitlement exceeds your ESA(IR) entitlement, that's what you get. But your IR entitlement including the SDP would be higher than your C amount. The other thing is that since you apparently have been considered for an IR award, you may not need to submit an ESA3. I would complete and send an IS10 form and see what they say. Maybe they'll insist on the ESA3, but trying the IS10 will only cost the price of a stamp.

 

As far as the ESA50 goes, that's unfortunate. But the PIP assessment and the ESA one are not connected to each other, so you could be awarded PIP one week and still have to do an ESA assessment the next.

 

Thanks again Antone.

I rang the DWP yesterday and theyre sending me the esa3 and is10 and i should receive it by Tuesday.

Having said that, the guy i originally spoke to DID send the IS10 (received today) but didnt put a note on the system. But i have a couple of problems with this....

 

1) On the top right where it says "office stamp", its been left blank. Is that ok?

2) On the pre-paid envelope, the address, badly handwritten, says, and I quote: "Freepost DWP ESA40". That is it. Absolutely nothing else. Now maybe im underestimating our postal service, but i cant help thinking that the chances of them being able to deliver this is pretty close to zero....

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Hi coggy67

 

The ESA3 link seems to be fine now.

 

Also, here is the IS10 Form if you need it:

 

Regards

 

thanks cookie, not sure my printer could handle 50+ pages but its good to have a plan B!

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The missing office stamp is fine. It used to be on there mainly so that a) the claimant would know where to return the form; and b) if it ended up in the wrong DWP office, staff there could easily see who issued it and where it was supposed to go. The form is still valid without it.

 

As far as the address goes, it's also fine. All "Freepost DWP" mail goes to one of the central mail handling units. Usually it's scanned there so that it's less likely to get misplaced - the staff in the processing office will be able to view the scan and deal with it that way.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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An update...

..received the forms yesterday, and trotted off to the PO to send by first class recorded delivery.

 

 

The new one line freepost addresses CANNOT be sent by recorded delivery,

as the PO's system insists on a postcode.

 

 

So, having stood at the back ringing ESA listening to Greensleeves for several minutes before i got through,

the lady told me to save my money and use the freepost system.

 

 

I politely declined and insisted on an actual address.

 

In my case, for my postcode, it was the Hackney benefit centre.

 

 

Well worth knowing for all of us who don't trust things to actually arrive using their pre paid envelopes.

 

 

Forewarned is forearmed.... ;-)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Another update.

 

 

I received a letter from the DWP today.

Its a breakdown of my ESA.

EXACTLY the same as that I posted earlier.

 

I rang them.

 

 

Apparently a decision was made today(??).

They will not backdate it 3yrs as it falls outside the 13mth limit they have.

However, they have not even backdated it for 13mths. Nothing.

 

Even more bizarrely,

they have not moved my ESACB to ESAIR. Infact, they have completely ignored my request to do so.

 

 

i am still not receiving the premiums I should be getting, even though Im fully entitled to them.

The lady on the phone had no idea why, and gave me, in her own words, a "hand off".

 

 

Someone will apparently call me back in 3 hrs.

Then she said that as it was a Wednesday, it would be 24hrs.

 

I have mental as well as physical disabilities and my brain is frazzled. I'm at my wits end....

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Have a look at this thread and the rightsnet link in my post in it.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?470734-Severe-Disability-Premium

 

You need to change your terminology as you're confusing the DWP :lol:

 

You are not asking for a 'back date'...... you are asking to be paid from the date you became eligible for it.

 

In DWP speak back date has a strict and specific definition which is time limited usually because you failed to declare something.

 

You're not asking for that - you are arguing official error in a decision they made some time ago. You want that decision corrected and paid from the date the original decision could/should have been made. There are zero time limits on this.

 

Edit.....

 

Also the 13 month time limit is for appealing a decision - you are not doing this either! I think the term is asking for an "Any Time Revision" based on official error at the point the decision was made.

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Have a look at this thread and the rightsnet link in my post in it.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?470734-Severe-Disability-Premium

 

You need to change your terminology as you're confusing the DWP :lol:

 

You are not asking for a 'back date'...... you are asking to be paid from the date you became eligible for it.

 

In DWP speak back date has a strict and specific definition which is time limited usually because you failed to declare something.

 

You're not asking for that - you are arguing official error in a decision they made some time ago. You want that decision corrected and paid from the date the original decision could/should have been made. There are zero time limits on this.

 

Edit.....

 

Also the 13 month time limit is for appealing a decision - you are not doing this either! I think the term is asking for an "Any Time Revision" based on official error at the point the decision was made.

 

 

Thanks Speedfreak! although in my defence I think most people would have made that mistake, though i clearly stated to them in my ESA3 that ive been eligible for this for some time and the error was at their end and easily checkable....

 

Anyhow got my call back....he was incredibly rude!

his opening line was, and i quote: "You asked for a call back, what do you want?" so i explained to him my 2 questions, why hasnt my money been back dated at all (i know, I know...lol) and why haven't i been moved to ESAIR.

 

His reply was "We have contacted storage, you have to wait 10 working days for it to be processed as the decision was only made today". Which didn't answer anything as far as i could see...

 

So I asked "fair enough, but as the decision has been made, and processing will only rubber stamp this, should I wait for your letter before I appeal, and can you explain why I haven't been awarded ESAIR please"

 

He simply repeated what he said, almost word for word, on a loop, until eventually saying:

 

"I've answered your questions, you refuse to listen. I'm not having this conversation. Your a simpleton"

At which point he hung up!

I'm still sitting here absolutely stunned....

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i received another call today.

 

 

The lady asked me some basic questions,

is anyone receiving care allowance on my behalf etc

and then told me I will now be receiving SDP, so good news!

 

However,

she said it will only be from 27th Jan 2017 and read out the decision makers decision to me.

....that being there's no proof of entitlement prior to this and I'm outside of the 13mth time limit as stated earlier.

 

Naturally I will be appealing this.

I'll be reciting Speedfreaks earlier statement,

in case they've misunderstood me,

but from there I have problems.

 

 

Even though it shows on there system that they sent me out an ESA3 form back in September 2013,

they say there's nothing on their system showing they received it.

 

 

I can only find an ESA breakdown letter from 2015 which says what my Income related would be, but that they'd be giving me ESACB as it's £2.75 more (as posted on page 1).

 

Any help or advice guys?

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Have a look at these 2 threads about SDP

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?437802-Tribunal-preperation-for-back-dating-of-SDP&p=4665135#post4665135

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?472144-Severe-Disability-Premium&p=4972515#post4972515

 

Now you're not strictly a failure to consider your circumstances due to maladministration on Conversion from IB to ESA

 

Yours is a failure due to maladministration to properly investigate your circumstances when you were awarded PIP.

 

(Now if you were previously awarded DLA at Mid or Higher rate at any point then you could argue that too)

 

It's basically is the same argument as used in Conversion cases but simpler as it's the awarding of PIP that is the trigger for the DWPs investigation (or lack of it). See my explanation in the 1st linked thread. Easy win at Tribunal and if you get the right DWP person and argue it correctly using the correct terms (so as not to confuse them) it might not get that far. We live in hope so expect to have to appeal and go to tribunal.

 

Read up on the links and advice in my posts and others in those threads to get the argument right. Then just make sure to ask for a mandatory reconsideration and appeal within the correct time limits.

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Thanks Speedfreek. When I was eventually awarded PIP, a good 10mths after applying for it, all I received was a notice of entitlement and the backpay into my account. Nothing else, no forms, no advice I may be entitled to other benefits etc.

 

It was only when I received my revised letter regarding my Housing Benefit did I even know about about EDP .They had wrongly said I was receiving £15 EDP on their breakdown, and suggested I may be entitled to other benefits.

 

So I rang the DWP and they just said they(the council) had got it wrong and I wasn't entitled to any other premiums as I was on ESACB. There was no mention that I could even try to change it to ESAIR and claim anything else.

 

Can I ask if the breakdown of ESA where it states what my ESAIR amount is but says that they're giving me ESACB as it's slightly more is actually an admission of entitlement to ESAIR, and therefore relevant?

 

I will look over those links over the weekend and take notes. Thanks.

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