Am I buggered? <scans attached>

[spinningfish]

I recently went back to my old place of work, after a three month break, and parked out back as per normal.

 

Unbeknown to me, the landlord of the building have got a company call OPC to manage the spaces, and ticket anyone without one of their permits, which of course I did not have.

 

They do have signs up listing the terms of parking in the car park, but I never noticed these, and have got a ticket.

 

I've attached scans of the ticket to see whether any of you knowledgable souls can see some way of getting out of this, as I really, really cannot afford the amount they are asking for!!

 

Thanks

 

[POCA]

Ask them to prove who the driver was.

 

Ask them to show how much money was lost. A penalty is not enforceable under contract law.

[patdavies]

Interestingly, it says that the OPC operative must be parked in the area

 

"This private parking ticket has been issued by a(sic) operative of OPC whilst parked or stopped within an area under patrol by OPC"

 

So in addition to the usual proofs for a private ticket, should they ever take it to court, they will have to prove that their operative was parked or stopped in the area and not on foot or parked on the public highway.

 

Also, they say that they will approach the DVLA for details of the vehicle

 

"In the event of non-payment a request will be made to the DVLA seeking the relevant details of any vehicle issued a private parking ticket"

 

The DVLA do not hold details of private parking tickets, so it would be difficult for them to provide information on any vehicle that has ever had such a ticket.

 

Normally, leeches like these will explicitly state that they will apply to the DVLA for details of the registered keeper.

[spinningfish]

Thanks for the advice!

 

So just get on and write them a letter, or wait for their next move???

[livelylad]

POCA is correct they cant prove who the driver was and you dont have to tell them

 

this link will help

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-wardens/5232-your-parking-ticket-may.html?highlight=parking+ticket

[spinningfish]

So should I write them a letter, and ask them to prove who was driving the vehicle in question, and if so, does anyone have a sample letter that I can use?

 

Thanks!!

[spinningfish]

Also there is no date of contravention, and it also mentions penalty charges, when I thought the only people that could issue a penalty were the courts???? Or am I totally wrong on this???

[patdavies]

So should I write them a letter, and ask them to prove who was driving the vehicle in question, and if so, does anyone have a sample letter that I can use?

 

Thanks!!

 

Not quite.

 

You shouldn't be asking them to prove anything

 

Simply write pointing out that any contract that may exist by 'implied consent' can only be with the driver of the vehicle; that you are the registered keeper and as such, not a party to any such alleged contract; that you are under no obligation to provide them with information as to who the driver was at the time.

[spinningfish]

Ah. It's not my car, so I'm not the registered keeper.

 

Should my mother write it in that case, as she is the registered keeper?

 

Thanks

 

Alex

[spinningfish]

Not quite.

 

You shouldn't be asking them to prove anything

 

Simply write pointing out that any contract that may exist by 'implied consent' can only be with the driver of the vehicle; that you are the registered keeper and as such, not a party to any such alleged contract; that you are under no obligation to provide them with information as to who the driver was at the time.

 

Just to follow up on this, I sent a letter stating the above, and I've received a letter back no stating:-

 

"We note that a claim is made that the vehicle was being driven by a third party at the time.

 

Please provide full contact details for the driver so that we may correspond with the correct person.

 

Should you not provide such information as required, within 14 days, we shall be left with no alternative but to put this debt to court and for such court to request these details. I must inform you however this will be viewed as abuse of the process and a waste of court time which could have been avoided."

 

What is my next move against these thugs?

 

Unfortunately, the original ticket scans have gone, from the message above, but this is a private parking ticket from a company called OPC based in Watford...

 

Help!!

 

Thanks

[BELLA 47]

Hello Spinningfish,

I urge you to read the thread 'UK Parkforce Enforcement Agency(Parkforce).'They are a private enforcement company too.Both Phantom reclaimer and myself have had tickets from private companies and neither of us has paid them or heard anything from them yet. My letter to County Parking (my private enforcement company),is posted on the above mentioned thread.You don't have to pay them, according to contract law, penalties are unenforceable.(Same law as is being used to recover bank charges).

Good luck!

B

[itsamomentintime]

Just to follow up on this, I sent a letter stating the above, and I've received a letter back no stating:-

 

"We note that a claim is made that the vehicle was being driven by a third party at the time.

 

Please provide full contact details for the driver so that we may correspond with the correct person.

 

Should you not provide such information as required, within 14 days, we shall be left with no alternative but to put this debt to court and for such court to request these details. I must inform you however this will be viewed as abuse of the process and a waste of court time which could have been avoided."

 

What is my next move against these thugs?

 

Unfortunately, the original ticket scans have gone, from the message above, but this is a private parking ticket from a company called OPC based in Watford...

 

Help!!

 

Thanks

 

just ignore this - legally, you do not have to provide the details of who was driving, and they cannot prove who was the driver at the time

 

meaning......there is no way they can find out who is responsible for payment of the ticket - if the ticket is even enforceable anyway...

[beccysmum]

I've just had a similar experience in Tesco. One of my children parked on double yellows at our local Tesco, on the one day in the year when they had parking controllers in. A parking charge notice was left, but the child in question didn't own up. Last week I received a letter from Euro Car Parks, stating that I had to pay up as I am the registered owner.

 

I rang them the same day and couldn't get through on the number given - was left on hold for 15 minutes. I got a number from the website and spoke to someone who gave me another number to ring. I rang that number and spoke to someone who said Merlin would ring me back (if he ever got time!). in frustration, I got the names and addresses of the directors from companies house (cost 1.00), then sent an email to Customer Services stating that if they didn't ring me back by 5 pm I was writing to every director on the list.

 

Verity rang me back, and tried to tell me that as the owner I was liable. I asked her for the legislation or case law to back it up, and she couldn't provide it, so I pointed out that this is obviously a civil matter. She then appealed to my better nature, stating that my kids should be taught a lesson. I said that I didn't think me paying up for their misdemeanors would teach them anything except their mother is a soft touch.

 

I also said I didn't know which child was driving, so could not provide her with their details.

 

Told her to take me to court asap. She tried to scare me with the vision of debt collectors banging on my door, until I told her I work with these people day after day, and that they and the courts do not frighten me.

 

0I pointed out that debt collectors can not call at your property with a signwritten van saying 'DEBT COLLECTOR', so only I would know what they were after. Once I had stated this is a civil debt, she caved in and wrote the debt off. I haven't even written a letter - don't be scared of these people, and if you don't want to confront them over the phone then send the letters - they really do not have a leg to stand on.

 

My favourite part was when Verity said they were taking a loss on this ticket - it made my Christmas. Best of luck, and remember - they can't hit you and they can't send you to prison. Go for it - you'll win!

[omicron]

Generally speaking, whoever owns the car park will have a contact with the warden and be able to say "This person works for us, but hadn't had a permit issued on that day, please can you scratch the ticket off".

 

I used to get this all the time when I worked for Tesco's, as I have use if a few vehicles, and was always forgetting to switch my staff permit between them. I just used to give them back to the warden, say sorry, and he'd cross it off.

[Guest xipetotec46]

Should you not provide such information as required, within 14 days, we shall be left with no alternative but to put this debt to court and for such court to request these details. I must inform you however this will be viewed as abuse of the process and a waste of court time which could have been avoided."

 

 

They cannot take you to a magistrates court, your offence is a Penal offence not a criminal offence, they can take you to a County Court however they would have to pay a minimum of £250 to lodge the complaint, they can also take you through the small claims track, again this will cost them money and they could lose, in both courts, my advice is hang in there and tell them who the names of the children are who could have been driving the car and and let them try to pursue a claim through them, my bet is that they will drop it especially if you have 2 or more kids with licences you have told them who could have been driving so the burden of proof is with them I doubt whether they would waste time interviwing the kids. let me tell you a story, 3 years ago I went to Tenerife for an holiday, about a month after i returned I received a Notice to owner from a council in the lake district 150 miles away for a parking payment for overstaying the time, I informed them I was in tenerife and attached the airline stub tickets with my name and my wifes name on which proved I was in tenerife at the time of the contravention, I informed them that the vehicle a Ford escort Van was a company vehicle and should not have been driven whilst I was on holiday I told them one of my three sons was driving it and gave them their names and addresses adding that if they can find out which son it was who was driving the van they would be sacked, i never got a reply and never heard another thing about it.

Barry

P.S answer each letter you receive promptly keep it simple, short and to the point, this will go in your favour.

[patdavies]

Just to follow up on this, I sent a letter stating the above, and I've received a letter back no stating:-

 

"We note that a claim is made that the vehicle was being driven by a third party at the time.

 

Please provide full contact details for the driver so that we may correspond with the correct person.

 

Should you not provide such information as required, within 14 days, we shall be left with no alternative but to put this debt to court and for such court to request these details. I must inform you however this will be viewed as abuse of the process and a waste of court time which could have been avoided."

 

What is my next move against these thugs?

 

 

 

You have two choices.

 

1) Ignore it - they have no case to take to a civil court, nor do you have any legal obligation to inform then of the driver's details.

 

2) Have some fun by writing back to point out that you made a statement, not a claim and that you would be willing to provide details of the driver if, and only if, they can supply you with details of the relevant legislation that requires you to supply these details. Add that any other communication from them that does not contain the above legal reference or is informing you that the 'ticket' has been cancelled, will be viewed as harrassment and reported as such to the relevant authorities.

[spinningfish]

You have two choices.

 

1) Ignore it - they have no case to take to a civil court, nor do you have any legal obligation to inform then of the driver's details.

 

2) Have some fun by writing back to point out that you made a statement, not a claim and that you would be willing to provide details of the driver if, and only if, they can supply you with details of the relevant legislation that requires you to supply these details. Add that any other communication from them that does not contain the above legal reference or is informing you that the 'ticket' has been cancelled, will be viewed as harrassment and reported as such to the relevant authorities.

 

Hi All

 

Well this appaears to have reared its ugly head again...

 

Having followed Pat Davies' option 2, as quoted above, during the beginning of January, I heard nothing and assumed this was now all dealt with.

 

Apparently, OPC, the original issuers of the parking ticket have passed this on to debt collectors Windsor-Smythe & Partners. My mum received the following letter a few days back...

 

"We are under instruction, by our client OPC, to recover the debt outstanding.

 

You entered an OPC patrolled area, which subject to the terms and conditions of use of that private land you agreed to pay the sum of £100.00 if you did not adhere to the 'terms and conditions' as displayed. According to the records held by OPC your vehicle was found in an OPC area in contravention of the said 'terms and conditions'.

 

OPC issued you with a notice of proposed action on 22nd November 2006. The original amount owed has now incurred administration charges of £64"

 

Cheeky what-nots! Instead of providing me with the legislation I requested, they have passed the debt on. Nice. Also, if I don't pay by the end of the month it's going to county court. Scary.

 

Should I send another letter to these cowboys, again requesting the legislation allowing them to get the driver name out of my mother?

 

Also, which authority can I report them to for harassment?

 

Thanks

 

Mr Fish...

[patdavies]

I would write back to this DCA and point out that you dispute any debt to their client as no contract exists between the Registered Keeper and their client.

 

Add that they should confirm to you that they have passed the matter back to their client or started court proceedings - which you would welcome as you would robustly defend any claim and would be glad of the opportunity to counter-sue for your costs, time, etc.

 

 

Harassment should be reported to the Police - if the desk staff will not take notice then demand to see the station officer and if this fails, write to the Chief Constable to ask that action be taken against this company (OPC).

 

The Police may try to tell you that it is a civil matter. The alleged debt is; the harassment is a criminal matter that falls within their remit.

[spinningfish]

Thanks Pat!!

 

Will keep you up to speed!

Regards

 

Mr Fish

[demon_x_slash]

When you do go to the police, as pat said, they may try and say 'civil!' and hide under their desks (saves on paperwork ) so here's some info to back you up.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-wardens/65341-private-parking-companies-charges.html

[spinningfish]

I've sent this Recorded Delivery, which should do the trick...

Edited February 12, 2010 by spinningfish
In case OPC are reading...

[spinningfish]

Apparently not.

 

I'm actually getting really, really hacked off with this lot.

 

They've again written to my mother to tell her that unless she pays the bailiffs will be round and that we have ignored THEIR requests. They have ignored MY blasted letter.

 

I'm so angry I could explode. These are bully tactics...

 

Right. What can I do to end this once and for all? The mood I'm in, I'm going to go down to Liverpool and drag one of these so called solicitors out of Windsor Smythe & Partners and beat him senseless...

[borisbeaver]

Bailiff's require a court order before they can act.

[spinningfish]

Is it likely that these chumps will attempt to get a court order?

[Rob S]

Very unlikely, because they know where they stand legally. They rely on bullying people into submission with the approach they are using on you. Let them carry on with it.As long as you stick to your guns and don't waver they will get nowhere.

 

And there is no way they can send bailiffs to your door without any form of judgement in their favour from the small claims court.