Not entitled to benefit urgent advise please needed please please

[wobbly]

I you are on BT phone(dont know about other providers)you can print off the date and time of your calls to DWP/ATOS to prove you rang them.

[speedfreek]

This scenario's so difficult to sort cos it's nigh on impossible to prove that Tatos didn't send the appointment letter or questionnaire. Conveniently for them, Tatos don't record either incoming or outgoing phone calls and no, we can't have a copy of the letter cos their computer system only records that one was sent!

 

No!

 

The issue is that it takes hell freezing over before the DWP will back down over this as it knows the claimant can not go without money for the duration 6-9-12 months it will take to get to a tribunal!

 

ATOS/DWP have to prove communication happened. ATOS keep postal logs but it has been proved that these are not detailed enough to prove they sent anything so is automatic tribunal win. Phone calls are a little bit more difficult but all digital telephone systems will have a log of all telephone calls made, it is computerised and it is easily checked.

 

This all can be easily (well maybe) obtained via a SAR to the DWP as data controller asking for the ATOS postal log records and telephone history for your address and telephone number.

 

Worked at SEMA pre 2000 and use to be the administrator of their MITEL telephone system which did all that back then. It's far easier now tbf! ATOS bought SEMA for the DHSS contracts they held.

 

As long as the claimant can prove that a telephone call was made to them after the letter was sent by ATOS then is win. This is the hard bit though as unless you have a truecall system or they called your mobile phone (mmm although most digital handsets will record numbers dialed in) you have no record.

 

Best course of action?

 

Carry on with the reconsideration and if need be throw in the SAR to the DWP.

 

If you need money;

 

1, try and claim JSA

 

2, submit a new ESA application - although you will not be paid on this until you have a WCA

 

* note how long will mandatory reconsideration extend this?

 

Have a read of this thread for a success in this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?372590-ESA-Stopped-for-failing-to-attend-appointment.-Can-somebody-please-help&highlight=ESA+reconsideration as persistence and reasoning can often work wonders if the DWP is called often enough.

[sparky1966]

Thanks guys

 

But can I ask which would be the best route to go down the letter I got from them clearly states they never got a reply to questionaire they sent so my benefit was stopped, but during phone call the guy clearly stated the questionaire went onto system same day and he didn't think they had looked at it but came back to me next day to state they did take my reasons into consideration and that's why I lost benefit

Am I not entitled to hear the reasons how they got this decision and why would letter state as I never replied

I'm just lost as to which way to appeal it and now have no benefit

[**Margaret**]

:sparky1966:

 

Well, I'd follow my own advice and appeal from the outset. For you, an appeal still includes an automatic reconsideration. During which (hopefully) a senior decision maker will notice discrepancies in the contact history and realise the mistake of disallowance for non return of a BF223 that's been input to the computer.

 

Two alternatives;

 

Apply in writing (via recorded delivery or at least get a certificate of posting) for Social Security's written statement of reasons for the decision. You've then got fourteen days from the date of the statement or one month from the date of the decision (whichever's later) to submit a formal appeal.

 

Apply in writing (via recorded delivery ......) for a reconsideration of their decision. Include your timeline, phone records, any reasons that Atos gave you for the cancellations. If the decision's not revised in your favour, you've then got one month from the date of the reconsideration outcome to submit a formal appeal.

 

You can make a new claim for employment n support for the same condition but it won't be paid until there's a decision, via Atos, that you've limited capability for work/work related activity.

 

If perchance, you've an alternative condition you can claim for, a new claim for employment n support can be paid from the outset.

 

Consider whether you can comply with a jobseekers agreement until there's an outcome of reconsideration/appeal.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited November 10, 2013 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

:AMENDMENT:

 

'...... it's nigh on impossible to prove that Tatos didn't send the appointment letter ......' (or that they called to cancel an appointment) for a sick or disabled claimant who's just had their only source of income terminated on the say so of Tatos. The phone gets disconnected for non payment and they can't afford stamps (let alone recorded delivery) to continually chase Jobcentreplus and phone companies.

 

Bit dated, here's a guidance document about the contact history (which now comes as a computer printout) that should be available via Jobcentreplus. Usually takes a repeated subject access request!

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/bf223#incoming-157093

(It's the third attachment)

 

I've been involved with several of these disputes. Two at tribunal level, both upheld for the claimant. One on the contact history that was received at the last minute. The other cos the judge believed the claimant who'd kept a meticulous paper trail.

 

These one-sided decisions can be overturned at tribunal. Often cos the appellant comes across as more credible than Tatos. But, and it's a very big but, lots of vulnerable claimants don't have the resources to hold out until tribunal.

 

Margaret.

Edited November 10, 2013 by **Margaret**

[speedfreek]

Thanks guys

 

But can I ask which would be the best route to go down the letter I got from them clearly states they never got a reply to questionaire they sent so my benefit was stopped, but during phone call the guy clearly stated the questionaire went onto system same day and he didn't think they had looked at it but came back to me next day to state they did take my reasons into consideration and that's why I lost benefit

Am I not entitled to hear the reasons how they got this decision and why would letter state as I never replied

I'm just lost as to which way to appeal it and now have no benefit

 

Okay this paints a new picture on things.

 

The situation if I'm reading it right is as follows.

 

1, you received a letter from the DWP asking why you did not attend an ATOS WCA appointment.

 

2, you replied to the letter stating that it was canceled by ATOS via telephone call.

 

3, you have received a further letter from the DWP stating that they do not believe you so have upheld the disallowance of ESA and have thus ended your ESA claim.

 

This is an absolute mess of a situation but all too common.

 

Have a read of the thread I linked to in my previous post for some hints and tips. You need to;

 

1, try and get a call back from the decision maker who made the decision and try to make them understand what has happened and also to get them put their reasons for their decision in writing.

 

Be-warned that the standard of communication by the general telephone staff is atrocious and it may take a couple of attempts and you will be told all sorts of stories if they do not understand you.

 

2, contact your MP and explain what has happened and ask for their assistance. They may or may not help but anything is worth a try and the DWP tend to respond quickly to them. Although not honestly sometimes so be prepared.

 

3, have a look for a record of the telephone call from ATOS on any of your phones. If need be send a SAR to the DWP requesting your full file for ESA and also the ATOS postal logs and telephone records for your address/phone number.

 

4, With a disallowance unless you can convince the DWP decision maker that it is wrong the only way forward will be either

 

a, a new claim for ESA - go see your GP and get a fit note explain to them what has happened and hopefully they will back date it to the date of the disallowance decision. They are supposed to prioritise a new WCA in this situation but often need constant pressure and reminders to do this.

 

Note this will not be paid until either you pass the new WCA or if you fail lodge a formal appeal - this may take some time especially with the new mandatory reconsideration phase.

 

or

 

b, make a claim for JSA

 

This is your only means of getting any payment until the disallowance is decided in your favour.

 

5, if they will not reconsider in your favour appeal and gather your evidence for the appeal as outlined above. It'll take time but you should win it.

[sparky1966]

Hi guys

 

Sorry to ask so many questions if I claim jsa will I be entitled to get help with my mortgage as I was on the ESA benefit

Edited November 10, 2013 by sparky1966

[honeybee13]

Hi guys

 

Sorry to ask so many questions if I claim USA will I be entitled to get help with my mortgage as I was on the ESA benefit

 

Hello sparky. Do you mean JSA or something else please?

 

HB

[sparky1966]

Yes sorry just changed it

 

What I'm looking to no is will I have to wait for weeks to help help on my mortgage

[**Margaret**]

:sparky1966:

 

Support for mortgage interest is available to recipients of income flavoured jobseekers allowance in Northern Ireland. I don't know what the 'terms and conditions' are, but the following link should give you a starting point to find out;

 

http://www.shelterni.org/

 

However you decide to challenge the disallowance of your employment n support, you don't need to worry about the 'mandatory reconsideration phase'. To date, it's not been enacted in Northern Ireland.

 

Margaret.

[sparky1966]

Can I ask you what is the mandatory reconsideration phase

 

I have printed of the appeal for on one of the post it will be in tomorrow post recorded delivery

[Nystagmite]

Mandatory reconsideration = before sent to appeal, they look at the decision again to see if it can be overturned.

[sparky1966]

So guys If I send this gl24 as on an earlier post is this asking for the decision to be looked at again or am I asking or telling them I'm appealing and will my benefit stop as they have stated

 

Sorry for all questions I just need to get this right as i won an appeal for the benefit earlier in year and I have no doubt they do anything to get me off Huawei E5220 MiFi

White.

[**Margaret**]

:sparky1966:

 

Submission of the GL24, that's linked to in #4, is a formal appeal to the Tribunals Service, via Social Security, who 'look at the decision again' (reconsideration) to see if it can be changed. If it can't be changed Social Security send the appeal on to the Tribunals Service.

 

Unfortunately your payments of employment n support will stop until there's a decision about your appeal. If Social Security or a tribunal panel change the decision, payments will resume and include arrears from the date of disallowance.

 

Margaret.

 

 

(Mandatory reconsideration, if it becomes law in Ireland, will mean a claimant must ask for a reconsideration initially, then decide whether to appeal to the Tribunals Service. Doesn't affect your current adverse decision.)

Edited November 11, 2013 by **Margaret**

[Perseus1]

Tips. Not helpful to resolve the problem mentioned.

 

But I always keep copies of the forms sent and if it is important I get "proof of posting". The Post Office produce a form which you or they fill in. Then if a problem comes up and I have not lost it I can quote time an date of posting. Last time I forgot though.

 

They do not usually acknowledge letters when no action is required on their part. Sometimes, you may get a telephone call from the DWP on another matter completely different and then you get it all mixed up because you think you have complied with all the questions, when it was a different office over something completely different. It has happened to me several times and it is very confusing.

 

I have known the postman deliver a letter to the wrong address and I received more than my fair share of misdirected Government forms.

 

I have also rung DWP up and they have apologised for not ticking a box or sending off a form on half a dozen occasions. That is often when the Housing Benefit people send me final demands. Or when a payment expected does not arrive or is the wrong amount.

 

It usually sorted amicably but not without a degree of anxiety for me. Things go wrong quite often.

[sparky1966]

Does any one no if I am allowed to claim jsa whilst I wait for a decision to gl24 and will they help to pay mortgages as on ESA

[sparky1966]

Can any one tell me where I would send a SAR to ESA offices for all info they hold on me in n, Ireland the ESA office is James house from cromac avenue so is this where I send all

[Nystagmite]

Any letters about ESA have an address on them where the letters are sent from. Write to that address.

[sparky1966]

Hi guys

Many thanks for your help to date, my question is as per other emails on ESA we decided to claim jsa whilst we wait for decision back from ESA on our appeal so my wife rang up got her appointment to go in but when she got their they said there was nothing they can do as both husband and wife have to go to first signing on can I ask is this correct as I don't trust any info they give

Is this a new thing I'm in n,Ireland too if this makes any difference

 

Cheers guys

[sparky1966]

just an update to this guys sent of gl24 form with all copies of letters all by recorded post

 

I also got my local MLA minister to contact them( MLA is ourMP here in N, Ireland ) i got a response well my mla got a response to say that they would look at their decision again but funny they have never contacted me to tell me that

[sparky1966]

Hi all

 

Sorry to be back hassling again but think I need some serious help here

 

I was called for a medical yesterday after a 45 minute wait to see this person and after seeing the last person come out crying I thought wow this going to be good. Anyways I was called into room told to sit down the girl never even said who she was only to state she would be questioning me about my illness and if that was ok I agreed it was

She then proceeded to mumble a few other question to which a few times I had to ask her to repeat them

We got to this question how long have you had your illness and my answer was for as long as I have been claiming ESA but to her this wasn't good enough she said she needed a date I replied I don't know exact date but a couple of years to which she again replied I need a date so I explained I didn't know the date and to put that onto questionaire I also said this is the second medical I have done so is it not there in front of you stating she had a big folder on the table which seemed to have documents inside she replied with this, I don't have your file or any notes and your answers are far to aggressive towards me with your answers so I am going to terminate this interview I tried to question her why but she just ignored me I took my mobile phone out of my pocket to see what time interview ended she then started into me that what I was doing was illegal I said what she on about and can I have it on paper her reasons for terminating interview she said you will here in my time she said you were recording interview but I wasn't and never did but I did not make her aware that it hadn't been recorded after she mad that comment she got up opened the door and said get out to which I left I asked her to open front door into building she stated do it yourself

I think the problem was she was running a lot behind as my interview was supposed to be at 3.50 pm but didn't get into 4.20 and by 4.25 interview over

 

Can anyone advise as to what I can do now I am getting really fed up with these guys I was recently put off ESA for non attendance but appealed it as I never got the appointment and also got our local mp into it and decision was changed so this was the medical after that the girl in question was I'd say no more that 25 and looked like she didn't even want to be there I suppose after 5 min she found an excuse to get out

 

 

I

[silverfox1961]

Hi

I assume this was an ATOS assessment?

 

I would send a formal complaint to their office in Nottingham putting as much as you can into the letter BUT without going on too much.

 

Try to keep it short but to the point.

 

When I was messed about by them, my complaint was sorted within 3 weeks.

[reallymadwoman]

Copy your complaint to the DWP too.

[time4change2]

you have had some replies and advice in your previous thread about the same issues

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?413336-Medical-terminated&highlight=esa

[honeybee13]

Thank you time4change.

 

Sparky, I've merged your threads into the benefits forum. You posted in the Atos forum, but I'm hoping you might get more answers in this forum.

 

If I'm wrong, I will happily move you back to the Atos forum with a grovelling apology.

 

HB