Cabot Subject Access Request (SAR)

[AndyOrch]

Thank you for that. It seems to me that under s 13.1.4 they can send me practically any old agreement template.....signed or not....

"1) The copy of the executed agreement should be a 'true copy' of the original. However, as confirmed in the case of Carey v HSBC Bank plc[2009] EWHC 3417 (QB), in this context the term 'true copy' does not necessarily mean a carbon, photocopy, microfiche copy or other exact copy of the signed agreement. There is no obligation to provide a copy which includes a copy of the signature.

2) The firm can reconstitute a copy. It can do this by re-populating a template of the relevant agreement form with the details of the specific agreement taken from its records. If the firm does provide a reconstituted copy, it should explain that that is what it has done, to avoid misleading the customer that this is a contemporaneous copy. "

 

 

Only in complying with a section 78 request...they need the original for enforcement purposes as your agreement is pre April 2007

[gprit]

Thansk for the quick response. Will await and see what they send for other cc debts.

Still unclear whether the fact that the LH side of p3 of Halifax agreement is missing means the documenet is invalid.unenforceable.

[theoldrouge]

A s78 request is basically a request for information

 

and provided it is a true copy of the agreement plus t&cs at closure and a simple statement of account then that satisfies a s78 request

 

However in your case bearing in mind being retired, no assets and moving abroad

 

I cannot see Cabot bothering to pursue , not worth the time and unrecoverable costs

[gprit]

ok....I have now had a CD with SAR information for all debts witht them. I am atttaching the Halifax (IF) agreement as shown in the SAR....p3 is a little more readable than the previous copy sent. Cabot say they believe it is enforceable.

So.....

1) this is a copy (not original) which is not certified as a true copy of the original.......so is that valid?

2) The agreement is not signed by Halifax (Intelligent Finance)...is that a reason for it being unenforceable?

3) I am still not sure of the situation pre 2007 (as the agreemewnt was in 2005)

 

thanks

[dx100uk]

sorry but page 2 is NOT the reverse of page one

[but page I states so]

 

 

is that from cabot or the sar you got?

[gprit]

That is exactly as I got it from the SAR request to Cabot.

They say it is enforceable.

[dx100uk]

you mean CCA request?

[AndyOrch]

And page 3 is not part of page 1 or 2 either...its reconstituted.

[gprit]

How can one tell it is reconstituted??? What should the approach to Cabot be, as they say it is valid and enforceable?

 

This uploaded agreement was part of the SAR from CAbot. The original upload (with p3 lH side misisng even more) was via a CCA request separately.

[AndyOrch]

Just down to experience...but look at the type face and fonts...dead give away that its 3 separate documents mashed together.

[gprit]

see what you mean...what is the best way to approach Cabot about this?

[AndyOrch]

No need to approach at all...we come back to your initial post...whether to continue to pay or not..with the full knowledge that they do not hold a legally compliant copy of the agreement.

 

The decision to continue to pay or not is yours

[gprit]

Seems I have to post the attachment again before the previous one gets deleted....so here it is.

3392484_Agreement.pdf

[silverfox1961]

Original attachment is now gone. Many thanks for re-posting.

[gprit]

When they sent the hard copy of CCA to me p2 (as the reverse of p1) was blank.....not sure if this is significent.

ok.....so legally, because the fonts are different on p1/p2 and p1 refers to page 3 (pages not actually numbered) it is unenforceable?

COuld I just ask whether the fact that Halifax did not sign the agreement is usual or does that also make it an invalid agreement/contract?

[dx100uk]

Its stamped? so as good as a SIG?

 

But anyway

Its bogroll

Ignore stop paying

 

Do nothing until/unless they issue a claimform

[gprit]

No...not even stamped.....if I stopped payment and they DID issue a claimform, given all the above, is it likely they would succeeed? Or would their claim be refused due to the cc comments above?

[AndyOrch]

You will be asking us for next week lottery numbers next

[gprit]

yeah well, it's a big step to simply stop paying if I am not 100% confident they cannot obtain judgement against me.....!

[AndyOrch]

Nobody can give you a 100% guarantee what may happen ..whether they issue a claim ..whether you win or lose...unfortunately we can only go off past experience by creditor/DCA and claims issued and how they concluded.

[gprit]

Appreciate that - I am going to wait and see what (if any) response I get to CCA's for other debts with them......40 days up end of this month as they said they would ahve to contact original lenders......mmmm

[gprit]

Sorry...have to post agaian as the 'whiteout' of he product used still did not hide details.

Here is a fully redacted document....

3392484_AgreementRedacted.pdf

[gprit]

Going back to the comment that it is not one CC agreement.....I came across this:

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13.pdf

 

It seems from s 13.1.4 (1) (2) that a creditor CAn actually reconstitute an agreement from a template.

Any comments?

[dx100uk]

yours is pre 2007 ...

they might be able to comply with a recon for the act itself

but I doubt if that would be considered enforceable in a court of law...

[brassnecked]

Lots of problems for DCA relying on Reconstituted agreement pre 2007, one of the main ones would be that they haven't got the T & C's forming part of the agreement to put in the recon, so contract very different from what was signed up to.