Agreement Enforceable?

[warner0708]

can anyone plz help?? have cap1 credit card and sent 3 letters requesting CCA.More than 30 day s elapsed in time and still they keep writing to request a signature(which i have been advised not to give!!!) Is debt now unenforcable???? shall i proceed with next stage??? Any help would be really appreciated

[Michael Browne]

Make a digital signature:

a) You can do this yourself, see here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/106562-make-digital-signature.html

 

b) Sign up to CAG's Signguard for £4 here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/digitalsignature.php

[buzby]

It certainly won't be unenforceable if you continue to refuse to provide your confirmation of identity (signature). This is a basic requirement - and to refuse to do so in the mistaken belief that it could be misused will disadvantage you.

[noomill060]

There you go again buzby, talking sh.., I mean, nonsense again.

[buzby]

Really?

You place yourself in a situation that disadvantages you, and you object to me pointing this out? I've pointed this out before - and it looks as though, for you, I have to do it again.

 

Since the reason put forward NOT for providing said signature is to 'prevent it being copied' (misused), shows a naive disregard for how this works, making the complainant appear (at best) ill-advised, and (at worst) a nutter.

 

Even if you believe the signature will be copied - the legal term for this is 'forged' and is a crime punishable in the criminal courts, wouldn't it be great if the offending firm did this? Not only can you involve the police, it makes the matter a criminal one whereas before it was only you Vs them. If you think a firm is going to risk everything simply to defraud the OP, you've lost your grip on reality.

 

No two signatures are the same, but it becomes VERY easy to modify your signature in a way that is distinctive to you (if copied) especially as all you have to do is retain a copy and refer to it to 'prove' that it was done,

Indeed, of the 7 times I have done this as part of a dispute process, I got the information I required and nobody attempted to misrepresent my signature (shame, as I wanted it to happen).

 

So, thanks for your vote of no-confidence. Coming from you it gives me all the vindication I need. And I don't need to be as disrespectful as you were.

[noomill060]

The point is that there is no legal reason why you have to sign a s.78 request.

 

Therefore, a company is not acting reasonably in using this as an excuse to fail to comply with your statutory request.

 

They clearly dont want to or cant comply.

 

Nothing to do with forging sigs.

[buzby]

And how would you convince the company you are apply to, that you are indeed the person stated in the letter? It is more than just a courtesy to sign, it signifies (!) that the person signing is requesting the information. To type such a signature, or not do so because there 'is no requirement' means that as there is no verification that the requestor is who they say it is, anyone - a private investigator, nosey neighbour could no the same, and following your premise - get the info without fear or favour.

 

Since the DPA provides safeguards additional to the S78 request, the firms must be satisfied that the requestor is the data subject, and to provide a signature is the way this is done.

 

On a tangent. I have in the last week been asked to provide my date of birth three times in order to purchase products. Previously, a statement of 'Over 21' (then 'Over 18') was enough. Not now. No valid reason is provided, but usually 1/1/01 is enough.... Tried to sign up for a mobile phone contract? No DoB, no phone. Yes there's no legal requirement, other than to be 'of age' to enter into such an agreement.

 

Of course, the REAL reason is so that they can correctly allocate your data to your credit reference file so mistakes are minimised. Therefore their reason for the additional data has nothing to do with the use of the handset or the purchased services. But folk happily give a DoB on request. Are they mad, or just desperate for a phone?

 

As to the topic at hand - if a firm does not satisfy itself that the s78 request id from the data subject, they are in breach. Why you want to make so much of NOT providing same is still incomprehensible, and results in the needless refusal to supply - and a perfect excuse not to comply with their terms of supply.

[warner0708]

i have done a digital signature but am wondering whether to send or not???? I think i will go round in circles with cap1 if i dont??? Any advice???

[danielr]

not being funny, but don't they already have your signed application forms for the credit card?

 

I mean you must have signed something taking out the card? why are you worried about sending your signature to a company that probably already has a copy of your signature on file?

[warner0708]

thats the point danielr,they may not have a copy and will cut and paste it to cca!!thats why i am so unsure what to do

[danielr]

well, miss form your signature,

underline it,

dot an I etc...

[buzby]

And TAKE A COPY of how you signed it, so you can easily spot if they;re trying to re-use it. (However the chances of that happening are indeed slim).

[warner0708]

hi there very useful info thanks, know thread is quite old now but have had the same rubbish sent through by cap1!!!! have sent letter shown above but in addition have had a photocopied sheet of paper with heading credit agreement reg by cca 1974 saying this agreement between ......(name) of.......(address)and a letter from cap1 saying that they are currently in the process of retrieving a copy of my current agreement and will send it shortly!!! A statement s78 is also enclosed and set out at end of letter!!!they also say they will not be entering into anymore correspondence regarding provision of copy agreements and agreement is enforceable??????They also say to look at Carey v HSBC (2009) 3417(QB)??? Any help would be very much appreciated

[warner0708]

I have recently received some paperwork from crap 1 titled credit agreement regulated by cca 1974......the first papragraph states terms and conditions as says this is an agreement between........of(address).........etc.It states no credit limit by says we will notify you of this, it does state apr but is just a couple of printed pages with no sig???? Is this enforceable????Can anyone help or know what next step will be??/Letter sent with it says its a reconstituted agreement of orginal.The card was taken out in 2001 but the date is smudged on accompanying letter so you cant read it???

 

It also says refer to Carey v HSBC(no requirement to send photocopy of original agreement)

 

they will not be entering into further correspondence with me

[sunflower99]

HI Warner

Unsigned ts and cs are not enforceable in a court! Letterl a load of cobblers!

I would send them this letter --

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfill your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

My request remains outstanding. An unsigned credit agreement with no personal details on it, like the one you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. A blank agreement neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.[/font]

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

You had until ??/??.2009 (12+2 working days after the request was made) to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office the time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 + 2 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation.

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit information industry.[/font]

I expect you to write to me confirming that the account has been closed and no further action will be taken.

I look forward to your reply.

[warner0708]

thanks sunflower will give it a go:)

[Pinky69]

CrapOne don't answer letters -and that is a fact from one of their ex-employees. They shipped their call centre to India, paid off their admin staff and put what had been their call centre staff into admin. they haven't a clue about anything. They just push buttons that produce templates and add irrelevancies. So no Crap One letter makes sense. Ignore them and they will eventually go away.

[angry cat]

Go away?

 

More likely flog the alleged debt to RW or, similar...pass the buck!