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Omarsharif

Gemini PCN- Queens hospital car park Romford - im a doctor!

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I have just received a debt recovery demand of £160 on behalf of Gemini car parks.

 

 

Apparently, on 17 October 2016 (two and a half months ago), I parked in a disabled bay in the hospital car park in Romford.

 

This is the first I have heard of it. I had no ticket on the car, and I have had no notice to keeper by post.

 

I have to park here regularly because I work as a doctor in the hospital.

 

 

It is possible I parked there when I was in a rush to get to my shift and there was no other parking space.

 

I am fed up with this company and their tricks, as are many of my colleagues who have similar experiences.

 

Does anyone have any advice?

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Hello omarsharif and welcome to CAG. Omar is one of my favourite actors. :)

 

We don't like parking companies running hospital car parks, please wait until the experts are able to get here and advise you. Edit: I hope we can help your colleagues as well.

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Gemini. along with UKPC use the "disappearing ticket" to try and circumvent the POFA and create a keeper liability by stealth.

 

 

What happens is they slap a bit of paper on your car,

photograph it and then remove it so you dont know you have been ticketd.

 

 

they then write to the keeper and claim the car was ticketed so you can no longer appeal during the discount period.

 

 

This makes them more money and makes it look like you were avoiding contacting them.

 

Can you post up the NTK/letter with your personal details redacted, so name etc car reg and their reference no removed

but make sure you leave on times and dates and all places as certain things have to be very specific and Gemini arent very good at doing it right (probaly why they try and cheat the system)

 

The real problem though is that your Trust has signed these bandits up.

The money earned doesnt go to patient care,

90+% goes to the parking co

the rest cannot be spent on anything that is NHS medicine related so is usually squandered on something like a n ew carpet in the hospital CE's office.

Edited by dx100uk

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The PPC at this hospital site is employed by the PFI company and managed by Sodexo.

The Hospital is therefore private land.

 

 

You can complain directly to Estates Facilities Manager (Switchboard will connect you)

I doubt there is any chance they will take an employee to court for an unenforceable invoice

plus if you pay for parking you could claim supremacy of contact

but that may fall short as you were in a disabled bay which I presume was not in the multi storey?

 

 

Either way it is unenforceable

but you do need to respond and state the appropriate reasons

then follow up that up with an appeal to POPLA

 

 

so you have dealt with it should the idiots ever take a chance in court.

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Many thanks for the replies.

 

ericsbrother, I have tried to upload a pdf scan of the letterf; I hope you can read it.

It seems like a standard debt recovery letter, with date of notice 04/01/17 and date of the parking charge 17/10/16.

 

This is the first I have heard of the ticket, but I know they will say they left a ticket on the windscreen and wrote a NTK by post, even though I didn't receive either. It seems I have lost my right to appeal because of time, but I will approach POPLA anyway.

 

I would be very grateful for any suggestions.

img100.pdf

Edited by Omarsharif

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Oh good, our friends DR+.

These bandits have no interest in any matter EVER so you can ignore them.

 

 

Notice the sum they are asking you to pay them has leapt to £160,

ask yourself why that is if you really owe someone £100.

 

Appealing to POPLA will be impossible without a valid POPLA code

so your recourse is to complain to the BPA that Gemini are up to their old tricks with the disappearing ticket fraud and what are the BPA going to do about it?

 

 

You can tell them that you are one of a number of people whose cars have been falsely invoiced in this way and you demand the following:

1. a copy of the original screen ticket along with a photograph of it in situ that shows the car's geographic location by way of obvious background detail.

 

 

2. a copy of the NTK along with the document metedata to show that it was generated on the day that Gemini claim it was.

 

 

Send a copy of this letter to your employer and explain that their contractors are making false claims and what are they going to do about it.

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Thank you so much. I have asked Gemini for a POPLA code, but I won't hold my breath. I will do as you suggest and let you know what happens.

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do staff have to pay to park?

or do you have a free area to use that was full

whats the normal MO for staff there and parking?

 

 

dx


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Bad idea, it doesnt work like that, they are trying to cheat you so they are going to tell you that you are too late.. Get on to the BPA and COMPLAIN and copy your complaint to your NHS trust. I said this earlier for the very reason that what you have done will1) have no effect and 2) forewarn them that some person who doesnt know what they are on about is going to complain so they now have time to invent a lie and some paperwork to go with that lie., your ignore Gemini from now on.

Thank you so much. I have asked Gemini for a POPLA code, but I won't hold my breath. I will do as you suggest and let you know what happens.

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do staff have to pay to park?

or do you have a free area to use that was full

whats the normal MO for staff there and parking?

 

 

dx

 

Staff have to pay to park in a separate area from the public which is frequently full so staff end up parking in the public area - this is why these PPC invoices have been issued.

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I have seen a sample Gemini contract and it very badly written because there was no allowance for Gemini to pursue any motorist in their own names or to take legal action to recover money at all. I

 

 

f the ones that are signed between this hospital and Gemini are like that then you have nothing to fear other than some bod at you place of work getting themselves into a lather becuase they are going to have to explain how they got this deal so wrong.

 

 

Still no-one in the public sector above a certain rank loses their job because they are incompetent, that normally means a promotion to somewhere else

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You seem very knowledgeable about this, Homer. :)

 

HB

 

I have experienced close encounters of the 3rd kind with this site, Trust and PFI Co :eyebrows:

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do staff have to pay to park?

or do you have a free area to use that was full

whats the normal MO for staff there and parking?

 

 

dx

 

Yes. There is a staff car park, for which you need a pass which was about £60 a month when I last checked, but it is very over-subscribed and there is a long waiting list, so I (like many others) don't have one. We have to use the public car park which is more expensive and often full.

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That's not a very satisfactory arrangement, is it? It can't be easy to be at work on time if you're trying to park. When my father was very ill in Oxford last year, parking was a nightmare for visitors, but I didn't think hospitals would let staff go through the same.

 

I know this is a side issue to your ticket, but would people who are affected band together and ask for something to be done?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I know this is a side issue to your ticket, but would people who are affected band together and ask for something to be doneHB

 

What do the unions have to say about the subject ?


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so, for the moment you are taking the matter up with your employer and ignoring the parking co. If you dont get anywhere with your employer then you will need to write a letter telling the parking co or their pet lawyers to get lost because.... but for the moment we will use the other approach .

 

however we still need to see pictures of the signage at all the various car parks and also you can have a look at your employment contract to see what it says about parking since you pay to be there. If you pay directly out of your salary there must be terms attached so we will need to see them.

 

Years ago universities in big cities tried the same thing but were knocked back by the covenants on the land so the administrators just stopped anyone (apart from the administrators) from parking at all and rented out the spaces to rich locals.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras.

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That's not a very satisfactory arrangement, is it? It can't be easy to be at work on time if you're trying to park. When my father was very ill in Oxford last year, parking was a nightmare for visitors, but I didn't think hospitals would let staff go through the same.

 

I know this is a side issue to your ticket, but would people who are affected band together and ask for something to be done?

 

HB

 

No, it is not satisfactory. On arrival at the hospital both doctor and patient have to put up with the stress of driving round and round to find a space at a time when it is really important for both to be calm. However, parking is a common problem for hospitals. I'm sorry about your father.

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so, for the moment you are taking the matter up with your employer and ignoring the parking co. If you dont get anywhere with your employer then you will need to write a letter telling the parking co or their pet lawyers to get lost because.... but for the moment we will use the other approach .

 

however we still need to see pictures of the signage at all the various car parks and also you can have a look at your employment contract to see what it says about parking since you pay to be there. If you pay directly out of your salary there must be terms attached so we will need to see them.

I'm not sure the hospital will be very helpful, but I have copied my complaint to the BPA to the site director. There is nothing in my contract about parking. I don't have a staff car park pass, and I don't think they are even giving any out except to junior doctors, which is fair enough. I have to hope what you said about Gemini having badly written contracts is true.

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signage please

 

Thank you for your continued support. I actually work at both Queen's and King George hospitals, and unfortunately I am not going to Queen's until next week, when I will get pictures.

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This is the BPA's response:

 

The BPA is not a regulator for private parking companies we have no legal authority.

We will investigate any complaints about alleged non-compliance with the Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice,

however, we are not set up to deal with disputes from the general public about parking or control.

 

 

Therefore the Code does not provide a way for a driver to challenge how a landowner or operator has applied parking control and enforcement on private land.

 

 

Any challenge or appeal is a matter for the landowners or operators procedure, with the option of taking it to POPLA, and or the courts. We will not get involved in the arbitration of a dispute between an operator and an individual.

 

The parking charge process is such that a motorist has 28 days to appeal to the parking operator from the date of the parking charge notice.

 

 

If the charge is not paid or appealed, then the operator will escalate the charge to debt collection.

Once a charge has been escalated to debt collection, the option of POPLA is no longer available.

 

Following the review of the below,

we note you advise you did not receive a copy of the documents which Gemini advise were issued.

 

 

With regard to a notice to keeper,

unfortunately, unless recorded delivery is used we are unable to ascertain whether mail has or has not been received.

 

 

As it is not currently a requirement of the Code that the operator send mail recorded delivery,

if they are able to provide the documents they advise have been sent,

we cannot advise there to be a breach of the Code.

 

We also understand that Gemini Parking Solutions have advised that the notice to driver was affixed to your vehicle.

As per our Code

if a motorist requests photographic evidence of the charge,

that should be provided by the parking operator,

 

 

but as we do not hold this information,

we are unable to accommodate your request directly.

 

 

You should first direct this query to Gemini to obtain the details you have requested.

 

So it seems we are no further forward.

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