Asda store - my kids were accused of shoplifting when they had not ..

[IDR car]

last sunday before christmas my son and brother went to the football

when it ended my wife and my 2 daughters went with my son in to smyths toys

while i dropped my brother home .

 

when i got back to the toy shop they had gone next door to asdas ...

i go in and they are all in the toy section ..

( they was all spending their Christmas money )

 

when i got to them they said there was nothing in here they wanted .

they asked for the car keys as me and the wife had some shopping to do ..

 

we went off and walking around the shop .

. my wife phone rang .

just as she answered it we heard some one shout !!

we have just arrested your kids for shoplifting !!

 

my wife said they been stopped at the door .as we turned around the security guard was about 20 ft away walking towards us .

 

he said it again

this time not as loud ..

i asked where are they

he said they are in the security room and the police been called ..

 

we all walked to the security room .

. which turned out to be no more than a broom cupboard. with about 15 to 20 staff and customers watching ..

 

.as we got close i seen my 13 old son and 16 old daughter in this broom cupboard in hysterics and crying .

. i went nuts

 

i barged thro the people and staff to get to them

just as i got to the door of the room there was 2 plain clothes cops

who grabbed me and stopped me getting in to the room while shouting were are the police .

 

i said i dont care who you are get me kids out this room now ..

. then he told me they been stopped for shoplifting

 

my wife said then NO t

That is not your stuff , what they have is from smyth toys and showed the receipt

the cops checked the receipt and said yes every thing is paid for .

 

a manager said i want the item scanned with our scanner gun the cops said !! we have checked them and they been paid for )

 

the wife said let them check to which they did and guess what none of the items were from ASDAs shop

also the items had big smyths toy labels on them ..

 

all the staff walked off

the cop said i need to check the CCTV footage .

 

he came back and with one manager said

we have CCTV your kids walking in with the ITEMS IN THEIR HANDS so nothing has been taken from here ..

 

i said im not happy with them calling my kids shoplifters

a manager said that doesnt matter its irrelevant

i walked up to him and said its not ok to call my kids names .. and he walked off ...

we just left

 

as we were going out the door the security guard was talking to this manager about what happened as people were walking out

 

then stopped as we were going past and said sorry he could have handled it better yet the manager walked off ..

 

we called asdas house and they said we'll sort it

the security will have retraining and they said they'd,d send us compensation for our troubles .. NOTHING FROM THEM.

 

they assaulted my children called them names and me and my wife in a busy store , and got away with it ..

 

sorry about the long story

BUT WHAT DO WE DO

we have found out from the net that 3 things must happen

,

1 a member of staff must see you taking some thing off the shelf

 

2 they must wait till you leave the store

 

3 they must not touch you but say can you come back in to the store IF YOUR TRY TO RUN then they can grab you ..

 

now my kids had NOT taken any thing off the shelf

my kids were not out of the shop

 

The securtity guards grabbed them from behind by the tops of their arms and frog marched them to this room

 

they then emptied my daughters bag and started to questioning them ...

 

we were not there when they did this and no other adults were there apart from the security and manager ..

 

my son whos 13 yrs old

it was about 3 to 4 days till we could talk to him without him getting upset and starting to cry .

 

 

he stayed in his room for those days .

he's not been back in to ASDAs since

 

 

.. my daughter was ok when she got home

AGAIN she stayed in her room for the rest of the night .

 

 

it was later the next day she showed up down stairs ..

 

 

ASDAs house rep contacted us

( as my wife sent them an email telling them what happened )

and said sorry but i want that manager to apologies to my children face to face not some one over the phone .

[BazzaS]

SCONE

Seen to select items from display

Conceal items

Observed throughout the events

No effort to make payment prior to

Exiting past the last possible point payment could be made.

 

If the items were from a different store (& paid for there!), then they couldn't have been "selected from display". Someone assumed they were from Asda, but that isn't sufficient grounds to detain someone, precisely because they might have been bought elsewhere!!

 

If the children were clearly detained against their will when they had not committed an offence, then it is likely they were unlawfully arrested, and falsely imprisoned if they were prevented from leaving a room by being locked in, kept in by force or if they felt threatened by force.

 

If they were grabbed by their arms (without lawful reason) they were subjected to a "battery" (assault is the fear of a battery, the application of unlawful force is the battery). Both are "common assault", contrary to section 39 Criminal Justice Act 1988.

 

Did you get the details of the police officers?.

I'd be seeking formal legal advice from a solicitor, and / or going to the press.

 

What do you want out of this for your children?

What changes (if any) do you want from Asda?

Do you feel your children have been harmed by events, and if so is there anything they will need as a result??

[BazzaS]

Interviewing children without a responsible adult present is also not appropriate.

[IDR car]

hi . thanks .

. the cops would not let us near our kids till hey checked the receipt even then my son was to scared to come out the room .

 

what do we want from asdas

well id like it not to happen to any one else for one and proper rules/procedures in place so it doesnt happen again .

 

 

. not just oo he's gone for retraining or lesson learned .

the manager (the rude one ) to say sorry to both children and then i want asdas to treat them to good time to help forget this horrible affair..

 

what solicitor will i need to follow this up as i only know the ones were i live are trips. falls. car bumps ambulance chasers .

 

we dont have the police names but as they were called by asdas and my children had to give their names .address. so on to the cops

 

 

it be all logged with the police so i can find that out .

also as this security guard (they only said one guard mind yet it was two of them that grabbed my children so ones got away with it so far )

 

 

asdas will have his name and one of them was very easy to pick out..

[stu007]

Hi IDR

 

What an experience for you children to be put through so now you inform the Chief Executive of Asda take it out of the stores and reps hands also make a complaint to the Chief Inspector of your Local Police station as well about the 2 Police Officers action (they will be able to find out who they were).

 

Mr Sean Clarke

Chief Executive

ASDA UK

Asda House

South Bank

Great Wilson Street

Leeds

LS11

 

Email: [email protected]

[stu007]

Oh almost forgot now the Security Guard when you contact the Chief Executive I would ask them to clarify if said Security Guard holds an SiA Licence and if do you require the SiA details or if this is Asda's own In House Security.

 

If the Security Guard does hold on SiA Licence and you get the detail then you make a complaint also to SiA about the Security Guard.

 

http://www.sia.homeoffice.gov.uk/Pages/contact-complaint.aspx

 

You also require Asda to ensure that the CCTV Footage of the events (viewed by the Police & Store Manager) are retained.

Edited January 8, 2017 by stu007

[Sidewinder]

Appalling!

 

I absolutely agree with the opinions above - this MUST be escalated as far as possible. The security guard has clearly failed to apply any accepted practice in the detection of shoplifting and the manner in which he, and the store staff, have dealt with this is despicable

 

Chief executive's office for sure, and find out whether the guards are in-house or external contractors. If in-house then they do not require SIA registration, but if contracted they must display a blue SIA badge and you need to complian, as Stu007 suggests

[dx100uk]

you don need to use a solicitor.........

[IDR car]

hi .. thank you all for the info . i will be doing the things said on here .. the security guard just had asdas black jacket on no ID on him . i will let you know what happens

[silverfox1961]

I am also appalled.

 

It is obvious from your post that the security staff had no proof of theft therefore anything that followed MUST have been unlawful and possibly illegal. The police may say it is a civil matter but I would be forcing the issue.

I would be making a police complaint about the security staff who detained your children with no proof, no responsible adult present when a search was made as well as common assault.

 

I would also get the names of the staff responsible and report them to the SIA (on the assumption they are members) and as for the store manager, he needs reporting to his head office as part of a Formal Complaint.

Store security may be provided by a third party company and Asda may claim they have no responsibility for the contractors actions. Not true.

 

The least I would expect is a personal apology from the store manager, the security guards and head office alongside a substantial 'Gesture of Goodwill'

 

If the police refuse to take action, complain to the Chief Constable.

 

Your local press may also be interested.

[king12345]

Yes, agree with the others.

 

Get hold of the CCTV high they will try to delete (if they haven't done so already).

 

Go to the police station with your children and report the security guard for assault and false arrest.

Don't get fobbed off with the usual "civil matter": assault and false arrest are not civil matters.

As suggested, if they don't take any action and they send you the template "not enough evidence" letter, escalate to chief constable.

 

At the same time inform Asda ceo of this and demand a personal apology from manager and security guard (if they do apologise, wait for them to finish and then say: "apologies not accepted, I'm pressing charges".

Record this meeting if ever happens and do not go to a private room.

 

I would go further and ask that a poster is displayed in the store explaining that the incident was not linked to shoplifting with an apology for everyone to see.

 

They probably won't do this, but it will give a bit of heat up the manager's bum.

 

Ask the release of CCTV via ceo in a separate email, highlighting date and time and any fee they require (max £10).

Mark this as Subject Access Request (Data Protection Act 1998).

 

They will try their best to put a spanner in the work, don't desist!

[Surfer01]

Not a very pleasant experience.

 

 

I am not defending their actions, but look at it from their perspective.

 

 

Every day they probably have shop lifters and when they saw the children walking out with goods similar to what is being sold in their store they took action even though it was inappropriate.

 

 

Unfortunately shop lifting increases the cost of goods for honest consumers.

However I am surprised that there were two plain clothes policeman available so quick and I am wondering if they were genuine police or security staff.

 

 

If they were off duty policemen working there for extra money I am wondering if their boss is aware of this as there coudl have adverse implications for the police?

 

Perhaps next time before entering any store with goods bought at another store, inform the security guard or drop off the goods in your vehicle.

 

 

If we know we are going to shop at several different shops instead of lugging all the goods around, we ask them to keep it for us for collection later in the day. Never been refused.

 

Either way not an experience that I would wish on any honest law abiding citizens including children.

[BazzaS]

Go to the police station with your children and report the security guard for assault and false arrest.

Don't get fobbed off with the usual "civil matter": assault and false arrest are not civil matters.

 

The OP may as well make sure they don't fall into the trap of the common misconception you have shown : it may make the OP look like they don't know what they are talking about ; there is no such thing as "false arrest".

 

There is "unlawful arrest". There is "false imprisonment".

 

As for "assault and false arrest are not civil matters." : Wrong again!

 

Assault is both a criminal offence (by statute) and a common law Tort (actionable civil wrong).

Unlawful arrest is a common law tort (but not a crime on its own*) while false imprisonment is both a crime and a tort (both by common law).

 

* unlawful arrest by a police officer might become a crime if it involves "misconduct in a public office"

 

I would go further and ask that a poster is displayed in the store explaining that the incident was not linked to shoplifting with an apology for everyone to see.

They probably won't do this, but it will give a bit of heat up the manager's bum.

 

 

Ask the release of CCTV via ceo in a separate email, highlighting date and time and any fee they require (max £10).

Mark this as Subject Access Request (Data Protection Act 1998).

They will try their best to put a spanner in the work, don't desist!

 

 

Consider asking for them to take out a part page advert in a local newspaper, apologising.

 

Secure the CCTV as a matter of urgency.

[BazzaS]

Not a very pleasant experience. I am not defending their actions, but look at it from their perspective. Every day they probably have shop lifters and when they saw the children walking out with goods similar to what is being sold in their store they took action even though it was inappropriate. Unfortuantely shop lifting increases the cost of goods for honest consumers. However I am surprised that there were two plain clothes policeman available so quick and I am wondering if they were genuine police or security staff. If they were off duty policemen working there for extra money I am wondering if their boss is aware of this as there coudl have adverse implications for the police?

Perhaps next time before entering any store with goods bought at another store, inform the security guard or drop off the goods in your vehicle. If we know we are going to shop at several different shops instead of lugging all the goods around, we ask them to keep it for us for collection later in the day. Never been refused.

Either way not an experience that I would wish on any honest law abiding citizens including children.

 

Good advice, but the onus is still on the security staff to be sure an offence has been committed before arresting / detaining anyone, especially children ......

 

It may be convenient to drop off items that have already been purchased elsewhere, or firms could choose to deny entry to people who don't drop off such items, but in the absence of this : (unless a police officer*) it is still the responsibility of the individual to be SURE they have seen the offence committed before arresting / detaining someone.

 

* A police officer has greater protection by the ability to act on reasonable suspicion, and being able to detain to investigate, based on reports from another person of a crime. A police officer would have to act within the constraints of PACE, though.

[Surfer01]

As said I am wondering if the policemen were on duty or off duty

as it seems strange they were there so soon when they cannot be bothered to attend a burglary that is happening?

 

 

If off duty and employed on a part time basis by the store,

does this perhaps mean the store has been suffering severe shop lifting which is why they went over the top with the children.

 

 

I guess we will never know.

[brassnecked]

Absolutely apalling but as it is ASDA I am not surprided. I am waiting for a DWF letter via one of my employers apparently for investigating the crime when I was hit by customer services by a cretin on a mobility scooter, whilst trying to arrange to deliver a parcel. Apparently they need to refer theincident to DWF. Loonies.

 

Get the CCTV berore security conveniently delete it, inh future maybe Aldi, Lidle, Tesco or Morrisons might be a better place to go, anywher but WallyMart ASDA.

[king12345]

The OP may as well make sure they don't fall into the trap of the common misconception you have shown : it may make the OP look like they don't know what they are talking about ; there is no such thing as "false arrest".

 

There is "unlawful arrest". There is "false imprisonment".

 

As for "assault and false arrest are not civil matters." : Wrong again!

 

Assault is both a criminal offence (by statute) and a common law Tort (actionable civil wrong).

Unlawful arrest is a common law tort (but not a crime on its own*) while false imprisonment is both a crime and a tort (both by common law).

 

* unlawful arrest by a police officer might become a crime if it involves "misconduct in a public office"

 

 

 

 

Consider asking for them to take out a part page advert in a local newspaper, apologising.

 

Secure the CCTV as a matter of urgency.

 

Tomato - Tometo

 

Same difference

[BazzaS]

Tomato - Tometo

 

Same difference

 

No, it's not.

 

Making a mistake that makes it look like the OP doesn't know what they are talking about risks Asda thinking "we can fob him off"

 

Using the correct terminology makes it look like you know what you are doing and won't be fobbed off.

 

Similarly, confusing when things are civil only, crimes, or both might make it look like you don't know, or just make it up as you go along .....

(As does saying "same difference", when it clearly isn't...)

 

The OP needs to present an image of having researched things, and knowing the law (or having taken reliable legal advice), not making it up as they go along : ASDA will be more likely to take notice as a result.

 

Making "schoolboy errors" won't give that impression. It isn't "same difference".

[king12345]

Nobody expects the layman to know legal terminology.

Matter of the fact is that two children were assaulted and detained without good reason and most likely beyond the boundary of legality.

[silverfox1961]

If you wish to discuss terminology, can you do it elsewhere as it detracts from the direct issue with the OP at present and won't look very good that we are disagreeing with one another.

[ericsbrother]

When you write to the CE,

apart from explaing what went on and demanding a grovelling apology

I would be asking what EXACTLY the procedure are that the stores use and ask him where he thinks that this behaviour fits in with their policy and the law.

 

 

Make it clear that you are considering all of your options.

Say that as all of this was played out in public and you may be looking for an apology at the court door if that is what it takes to get them to consider the matter seriously.

 

You should ask the police whether the officers involved wrote up a report about this and if not, why not, were they on duty at the time?.

 

 

The local press may well do a bit of doorstepping for you if you dont get the answers you want.

Also get your SAR request in with a cheque for £10 and let the store manager know you are doing this and he should not delete the footage as it is your data.

(your children's images and data are automatically yours as you have the legal responsibility)

In short, make it uncomfortable for them to do anything other than what you want as an outcome.

[IDR car]

hi . all thanks for the information .

 

 

we have contacted ASDAs and had what i would say a standard bull poo reply just saying we look in to it we dealt with it and have nice day .

 

 

so we contacted CAB and they said we need to contact them again and ask what they did and so on and one we find out we go from there ..

not much help so im off to a solicitor today . to see what we can do ..

 

as for some the answers to the posts ..

 

the cops said they were outside all ready as when we were leaving we saw one of the big police vans that go round the different shops like a mobile police station thing ..(but i have only seen PCSO in them )

 

 

these two claimed to be CID ,.

but no ID was shown

we just took their word for it as they were chatting on what looked like police radio..

. they said the police were called by asdas and as they were out side at the time ..

 

we could not leave the items in the car as my wife and children went shopping while i had the car to take my brother home

that's why i was not with them just my wife when they went in to asdas

if i were with them i would have left the items in the car ..

 

we did say we wanted an apology ff the manager at the store (the rude one )

but in the email they sent they said we wont be doing that as this email is the apology..

 

im not happy with that as an email is a face less sorry ..

 

do i ask the store for the CCTV or do i ask the COE rep that emailed us for it ..

 

thanks again i will keep you all updated ..

[BazzaS]

You can't make them apologise in person) and it isn't something a court would order, either)

You can't make them put up a poster in-store apologising, nor make them take out an advert in the local newspaper.

 

However, if any of those would be pre-conditions to you not suing, they can't stop you suing. Suing won't make them do it either, but would:

a) risk (for them) the press taking more interest in it as a story,

b) give damages that could fund you taking out the advert in the local paper yourself .......(just keep it factual, and accurate, not emotive...)

 

CCTV: SAR to the Data Controller at head office, copy to the store.

Given events were on the 18th December, you need to crack on with this, or the footage may be deleted by the time they try to action your request.

[IDR car]

well asdas not interested.... and just had a call off the police . and they not interested as pc said they have the right to stop you . and as i said not they dont fallow the SCONE system .. that they follow .... se said they can stop you and im hanging up goodbye ..

[king12345]

Stopping is one thing, manhandling a child is another.

Time to speak or write to the superintendent or whoever is in charge of your local police station.

Remember, two children were physically held and pushed into a room where they were kept for no reason whatsoever, with the assistance of two police officers.

Ipcc must also be informed.