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RLP Civil Recovery Letter to my 17yr Daughter - don't know what to do!

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Hi there,

 

My daughter was caught shoplifting 13th December with two other girls, all 17yrs old, at Primark. My daughter had a £10 top in her bag and it was her first offence, the other girls had similar items but have been caught before. My daughter was brought home after been "warned" by police and the other two received a caution.

 

On New Years Eve my daughter received a letter from RLP Civil Recovery Specialists demanding payment from all or one of the three girls totalling £232 or court action will be taken.

 

Now after reading posts on here, speaking with CABS and also reading Google historic pages I am more confused than ever as to whether my daughter should pay some, all or anything at all to this company.

 

Three things mainly concern me:

 

* How can they ensure one or all will pay and if one doesn't when do the others become liable?

 

* If we pay nothing will this jeopardise my daughters chances of getting employment in the future? I work for a bank and had to jump through hoops to prove my employability and credit file. (NOTE: she lost her apprenticeship due to her diabetes related sickness the week after the incident so is now out of work, full time education and no training)

 

* Will they send in the debt collectors if nothing is received from us?

 

My daughter has been on a downward spiral for the past month or so and this is not helping at all. She is receiving help from her diabetes team for her mental health but this is putting far too much strain on an already struggling person. I really don't know what to do.

 

Please, any help is hugely appreciated....

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I'm sure others will be on here soon to advise that it's just a speculative invoice and she shouldn't pay. That's the usual advice and seems to be the best. Good luck to her and I hope her health improves.

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Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

Simple response. IGNORE THEM

 

Longer response when I have finished eating


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yep cant express it any other way

 

 

you TOTALLY IGNORE RLP

 

 

they are nothing legal

they never can do ANYTHING to her

 

 

it cant ever hurt her future

 

 

they are NOT bailiffs.

 

 

TOTALLY IGNORE

 

 

go support your daughter in this difficult time

 

 

they all do it.

 

 

and to be honest I'm glad your have as this will keep them on the right track for the rest of their lives.

and with no other harm being done

 

 

you totally forget about

and so does your daughter and her friends

dx


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oh and one last point

 

 

a DCA is NOT A BAILIFF

and have NO LEGAL powers either!!


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OK Longer response.

 

Before we get any further, it would be worth contacting finding out if the other girl's parents are aware and if so explain this to them. DO NOT PAY RLP A PENNY. Get them to come here for advice.

RLP will state they they are jointly and severably liable, meaning that if one fails to pay, the others become responsible. Not true as nobody owes RLP anything.

The matter has been dealt with by the police (as it should be)

 

There is also the fact that your daughter is 17. To become liable in a civil court, they must be 18 before anyone can take action but as it happens, that doesn't matter as RLP cannot take court action and Primark don't. It isn't cost effective for them to do so.

 

RLP will state that they are allowed to chase for 'compensation'. This is usually for the cost of security investigating the shoplifting. This is not true! Security costs are already factored into the price customers pay at the till and nobody is allowed 'betterment' meaning that they can only claim actual losses and as they got the goods back, what losses did they suffer? NONE!

 

In essence, all you will get is some letters from RLP demanding money but you can safely ignore them and once they have finished the letter chain, they will pass the matter over to a debt collector who have even less power than RLP so you can ignore them too.

 

If you need more evidence that RLP are spouting bovine excrement, just ask.

 

The only thing your daughter needs right now is a slap then a hug and help so she won't do it again :madgrin:


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Follow the Fox, RLP are toothless, for further evidence Google the "Oxford Case" where they lost out in court as they could not justify the sum they were suing for, and never could..


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Wow! So I'm getting from this that they are generally a group of rip off merchants?

 

How are they allowed to spout this rubbish and threaten people like this if they can't enforce what they threaten?

 

Thank you all for the advice and support!

 

Silverfox, thanks for the advice much appreciated, and as for the slap, she's had one or two!

 

She's still not coming over to the light just yet

but I'm hopeful she'll sort her act out soon.

 

Not an easy age to be at anyway but with what she's dealing with at the minute and this on top it's no wonder

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Same as what all the DCA's are like

All spoof.


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Same as what all the DCA's are like

All spoof.

 

It's wrong though that no one is stopping them. It's the same as window sales men though I suppose! Nobody cares about the little man.

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It's wrong though that no one is stopping them. It's the same as window sales men though I suppose! Nobody cares about the little man.

 

There is nothing wrong with RLP if you think about it. The alternative is that the retailers insist that the Police are always called out and they always insist on at least an official Police caution, if there is not to be a prosecution. This would mean that Police time is taken up dealing with shoplifting, rather than other issues which are more important. E.g violent crimes. I should imagine that Government is quite happy for retailers to use RLP in most cases and to seek a private resolution. This means less people with criminal records and all the issues that come with that.

 

Most people on receiving RLP type letters are going to pay, because they are enbarrassed by what happened. If nobody ever paid, then i would expect retailers to go back to calling out the Police and people ending up with criminal records. I am not sure many people would want their lifes or childrens lifes to be affected by having a record of shoplifting for a relevant period.

 

Under the current RLP system, it is open to retailers to take people to court, but whether they will be successful is up to the courts. At the moment, they might not be taking people to court, but this situation might change.


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While I agree with most of that statement, I still cannot agree that people like RLP should benefit when there are other ways to deal with it.

 

From as far back as I can recall there was a rumour that RLP got the lions share of any money raised (60/40 split) So there is the incentive there to continue the business model.

 

The claim from RLP is that they function for the prevention and detection of crime and to act as a deterrent to further acts. This cannot be true as they would go out of business if they actually succeeded.

 

For career criminals, a letter from RLP will elicit nothing but laughter. First timers as I suspect this one is have the short sharp shock of an apprehension and an official warning and are unlikely to do something so silly again. That is good restitution. The store get the goods back, the shoplifter gets collared, all is sorted with no input from RLP.

 

In the many years I have frequented this forum, I have seen just two cases where RLP dropped the claim due to vulnerability or mental health issues. While casting no decision on this case, some shoplifters have done so just to get a rush and to make them feel 'normal' without the underlying reasons being discussed.

 

At the moment, very few retailers will take court action as most claims would fall into the 'small claims' track and as such, costs are fixed.

 

An example, I steal a £20 pair of trousers. The store does not get them back in saleable condition. I then owe the store £20. All they can claim is the £20 plus court fees and solicitors FIXED fee of around £50. The total they could only ever recover is around £100-125. For a solicitor to attend, this would cost the company a minimum of £300. See the logic.

 

Sorry for the ramble but opinions are welcomed


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Silverfox

 

Agree that the RLP model has the problems you identify, but i think the alternative would be to go back to getting the Police involved, with criminal records being the result.

 

My local 24 hour Tesco had the highest Police call out rate in the county, mostly due anti social behaviour and thefts late at night. I think the Police and Tesco have since taken measures to reduce these, but given how stretched Police resources are, i would hate Police to be in Tesco, when they could have been dealing with a serious domestic violence call out.

 

If RLP means that Police can deal with real threats to public safety, then even if it is flawed, i can't see any moves by government or retailers to change it. I suspect we are more likely to see government try to pass legislation to enable retailers to obtain fixed civil penalties through some mechanism.


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Problem is as it stands, an innocent who has paid buried the receipt in their bag, and the tag hasn't been cancelled so the alarm goes, so are taken to the back room, then the receipt is found could end up with RLP demanding money with menaces for "Investigating the non crime" if security accidentally or otherwise provide the details to the RLP scavengers.


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Wow! So I'm getting from this that they are generally a group of rip off merchants?

 

How are they allowed to spout this rubbish and threaten people like this if they can't enforce what they threaten?

 

Thank you all for the advice and support!

 

Silverfox, thanks for the advice much appreciated, and as for the slap, she's had one or two!

 

She's still not coming over to the light just yet

but I'm hopeful she'll sort her act out soon.

 

Not an easy age to be at anyway but with what she's dealing with at the minute and this on top it's no wonder

 

Coz its a good money making scheme, the general public is mostly ignorant of legal matters, RLP have no more right to take legal action than I have, I could write to you threatening legal action, you may even pay up.

 

It unfortunate that your letter is so similar to many others we see here, youngsters who think they can get away with nicking a few quid from Primark, TK Maxx, etc..they have CCTV, security teams, etc..they risk ruining their lives before they've even started by getting a criminal record..that the real worry..not the fools at RLP.

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Wow! �� So I'm getting from this that they are generally a group of rip off merchants?

 

How are they allowed to spout this rubbish and threaten people like this if they can't enforce what they threaten?

 

Thank you all for the advice and support!

 

Silverfox, thanks for the advice much appreciated, and as for the slap, she's had one or two!

 

She's still not coming over to the light just yet

but I'm hopeful she'll sort her act out soon.

 

Not an easy age to be at anyway but with what she's dealing with at the minute and this on top it's no wonder ��

Hopefully she will see the error of her ways and see this as a lucky escape, meanwhile even back in 2009 questions were asked by CAB regarding Civil Recovery shenanigans, so a little not too hard reading here with the CAB report

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/global/migrated_documents/corporate/unreasonable-demands-final.pdf

 

And another take from 2014:

 

http://thejusticegap.com/2014/08/end-road-civil-recovery/

 

Basically they should tread carefully with minors, as a minor under 18 cannot be sued even if RLP had legal capacity to take court action which they don't, as to the so called "Dishonesty Database" they claim to hold, it probably breaches Data protection, just like the builders blacklist did.


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Damn! I was going to split this thread in two so that the merits of civil recovery could be debated however, since then it has become more focussed on this matter so I will let it run.

 

I had completely forgot about the 2014 regulations and as such, it would be good if we can get the goods on RLP. The letters are misleading as we know but what would they say on the phone?

 

If we can get someone to ring them and record what is said, we may be able to hit em where it hurts.

 

As to civil recovery itself. I would have no problem with them if they claimed actual losses, not the fictional ones they create. In the letters they send they state that each incident costs between £300 and £500 but of course they never break it down into its constituent parts. They won't be able to as they would shoot themselves in the foot by adding in security costs which cannot be reclaimed.

I wish I knew someone who has been on the receiving end of these claims where I could act for them. I quite like catching people out in phone calls :-)


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SF,

we could always start a parallel discussion thread to nit pick and analyse how RLP and DWF are operating now, in light of the 2014 changes in law.

 

 

I am particularly interested in any evidence of persecution of innocents who are sent letters even though they have paid and the alarm goes off due to faulty or non deactivated tag due to error at the till,

 

 

and especially with a forgetful pensioner or a vulnerable person with mental helth issues who has the receipt which is found during that "session" in the back room.

 

 

I have phoned RLP regarding this scenario in the past and they seemed to think that the innocent might well have to pay for the "investigation" of the non crime after all the alarm went off.....

That might be the crowbar to lever the door open.

 

 

Not that anything we do would worry Jackie unduly, she seems as bombproof as Claire Sandbrook the HCEO resident in the USA giving authority to DCBL enforcements.


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A couple of year ago a Chinese blackmailer sent out letters to all of his local government officials saying

"I know what you are up to, pay me to keep quiet or I will tell everyone".

They all paid him

 

Now I suspect that a similar model may well roll out from someone like RLP.

 

 

They will claim to have some supercomputer database that has records of absolutely everything and it is no use hiding, she knows about all your foibles and indiscretions so pay her and she wont spill the beans.

 

 

this letter will go out randomly to addresses all over the UK and some people will pay up because they think that she has something on them but more people will pay up becasue the tone of the letter makes them believe that lies will be told about them if they dont.

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just like every letter from a DCA

 

 

READ IT PROPERLY!!


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just like every letter from a DCA

 

 

READ IT PROPERLY!!

Full of if's, but's and maybe's, no will do's in there at all.


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