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kingslair38

HELP! Victim of paypal "chargeback" fraud

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New to site, but im desperate for help.*

 

I sold a brand new iphone 7 on 02/12/16.

Buyer paid through paypal straight away, no problem.

I withdrew funds to my bank account,* and got item ready for dispatch.

 

Received follow on email from buyer stating that they forgot to update their details, and could i send to their alternative address? I said ok, as it wasnt initially suspicious as they had already paid, and it is something ive requested myself in the past, when i bought tyres for my car, but asked for them to be delivered to my local for fitting.

 

sent phone to address requested 1st class next day track & traced, and signed for.

All good, or so i thought!

 

On 17/12/16 i received email from paypal to inform me that buyer had initiated a "chargeback" and my paypal account had been debited £759 and sent back to buyers card company for "unauthorised use" i was furious!

 

I provided paypal with all the information they requested,

proof of postage tracking number,

even a copy of signature from buyer.

 

They told me they would investigate on my behalf, and inform me of their decision,

I told them I have been with ebay/paypal since 06 and in over 300 transactions in have NEVER HAD A SINGLE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK!

 

I have received a email from paypal today 30/12/16 saying that I've lost my money, and that's the end, case closed!

 

I'm absolutely staggered by this, and would appreciate some advice, from any kind people of what I can do about this?

 

I cannot afford to lose this money,

as I have a low income,

but of course paypal font care.

 

Thanks

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Easiest way now sadly is to close the account

And simply ignore eBay/PayPal and make a new I'd etc

 

They will not do anything about the negative balance

Or are you out of pocket too?

 

Contact acfionfraud too


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Hi. Thanks for quick reply.

 

Yes they took £759 out of my paypal account, which was funds that that I was awaiting for a refund, from item I bought online (not from ebay)

I always thought paypal was the safest way to buy/pay online, as no card details is given (in my naivety)

they just took my hard earned money, without haste, and ruined mine and my sons Christmas.

 

I also have sick child, who at the moment is receiving chemotherapy,

and I explained to paypal that theses funds are for clothing/presents for him,

but I was astounded at how little they were willing to get a swift solution to this issue.

 

The guy I spoke to from paypal, on the phone was not interested at all,

 

I told him I've always put my faith in paypal,

but in effect might as well told me to ......

 

I'm absolutely devastated by this situation,

as I'm a honest person, and have always tried to do the right thing

. Do you think I could use MCOL?

 

thanks

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God not good.....

 

 

But sadly you fell for the oldest trick in book

Get action fraud onboard would be my first move

 

Not sure on court route might be possible

But the spoof you suffered is very common

And if I were to be honest

You should have seen it on TV before

There has been so much about it the last few years


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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You need to immediately unlink any bank account or credit card from your Paypal account. If you do not Paypal will take funds from either or both to cover the chargeback. I would even take the steps of changing your credit card number (report it lost) and inform your bank in writing that no dipping from your account by Paypal.

 

Then immediately forget that Paypal account as it will be of no further use to you. You will get a wedge of threatening emails initially from Paypal which will die away and contact will flare up again from one of their in house debt collectors - this time threatening letters by mail. You will not be taken to court - Paypal have not yet to my knowledge ever tried using the courts to enforce their terms and conditions. So simply ignore all threats!

 

If having a Paypal account is important to you you will simply have to use a new bank account, a new email address and slightly tinker with your physical address so the Paypal bots do not connect the old and new accounts. For example if you live at 222 Anywhere Road - make it Ground Floor Flat, 222 Anywhere Road.

 

Your name should be a bit different as well. If before you were A. B. Bloggs - becomes Andrew Bernard Bloggs.

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Urm..they have got £759 of her money already...

It was in her pp account

 

Just for future readers..cancelling your debit card does not stop the CPA

 

Dx


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WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

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If Paypal already has the money from you as you failed to shift it to your bank account then the money is gone unless you are prepared to sue them through the county court system. If you do this be prepared for a lengthy battle

 

Not saying this is the case but Paypal will 'seize' money from an empty account leaving it with a negative balance and then harass the hell out of you to try and claw it back

- if the funds have already been withdrawn.

 

Currently I have one account with a negative balance of over a grand due to a Paypal rogue chargeback.

 

The secret with Paypal is not to have a balance of more than a few pound with them at any one time and ensure you keep a beady eye on all high value transactions.

 

Too late though for the OP if the money was left in the account.

It always seems to happen to those who can least afford it and the hassles in sorting it out.

 

Paypal itself does not care one iota about any hardship caused unless its actions result in a public outcry.

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Thanks for all the feedback guys.

 

Does anyone think that I have a case, bearing in mind it is a blatant [problem]!

 

I submitted all evidence requested, and the reason given by paypal was was "unauthorised use" which indicates fraud from the buyers end?

 

Don't know what else to do?

 

Really need to try retrieve these funds.

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

Thanks

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If Paypal already has the money from you as you failed to shift it to your bank account then the money is gone unless you are prepared to sue them through the county court system. If you do this be prepared for a lengthy battle

 

SCC isnt lengthy at all. Paypal are being ignorant of the law and thinking they can do what they like.

 

Not saying this is the case but Paypal will 'seize' money from an empty account leaving it with a negative balance and then harass the hell out of you to try and claw it back - if the funds have already been withdrawn. Currently I have one account with a negative balance of over a grand due to a Paypal rogue chargeback. The secret with Paypal is not to have a balance of more than a few pound with them at any one time and ensure you keep a beady eye on all high value transactions.

 

Too late though for the OP if the money was left in the account. It always seems to happen to those who can least afford it and the hassles in sorting it out. Paypal itself does not care one iota about any hardship caused unless its actions result in a public outcry.

 

Good job paypal wont go near a courtroom then and wont touch your credit file.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Ring action fraud kings now

Get a crime number

Ask about how they can help

 

Sorry but I can't see court winning unless you sue the buyer directly


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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Well guys, I've reported to action fraud. Also emailed BBC "watchdog" programme. Any things worth a shot I suppose. Thanks for all your comments guys. Much appreciated

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What details do you have of the buyer?

 

What address did they use?


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Did you block the iPhone?

This is theft and I don't know if you can activate the GPS find me option on a brand new phone, but worth speaking to apple to see if they can help.

You will need a police ref number first.

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PayPal are pretty good – and if you had sent the phone to the verified PayPal address, then it would have been covered by their protection system.

 

PayPal's objection will be that you send the phone to a non-verified address – presumably as a result of a direct communication between the purchaser and yourself.

 

I can certainly understand that you are angry about the whole thing but am afraid that although PayPal does sometimes get it wrong, in this case I think that their position is understandable.

 

Of course, it's a hard lesson – but I'm sure that you find PayPal very useful – but of course if you decide to keep on using in future then you need to make certain that you only send to verified addresses so that you stay within the terms and conditions of their protection system.

 

It must be a real blow to lose this kind of money – especially at this time of the year. I'm very sorry


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As the item was sent to an address other than the one on the Paypal transaction then any court action against Paypal is IMHO doomed to failure.

 

Your only means of redress is against the person it was actually sent to. You will need to check the address the item arrived at and see if it was simply an accommodation address or not. Try Googling it. You should have a signature from the delivery and it may be worth checking with the local delivery office to see if there have been problems with the address in the past.

 

A couple of years back I almost got caught in a similar thing selling gold coins on eBay. Something smelled so I managed to get the Liverpool sorting office to block delivery of a special delivery package to an address that turned out to be an empty house with a neighbour signing for packages!

 

Get Googling and find out as much as you can about the delivery address and its location. Also try googling the name of the addressee. If there is a pattern to this the name will pop up on other forums which may assist you further.

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And on that note, name and shame the fraudster so others googling his name will know.

 

Name, both addresses and eBay username.

 

Screw dpa in this clear case of fraud.

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This could be a genuine case of stolen identity and yet you are still willing to put someone's safety and that of their family in danger??

 

Let the police and/or the courts sort it out would be my advice.

 

Ebay name...yes.

 

Addresses and names....i would be very VERY careful.

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Grumpy is right naming and shaming is not the way to go. But hoping eBay and the police will assist you is probably futile. Just how many dedicated hours would it take to catch the person who swindled you?

 

If you have a few minutes look at the underbelly of the Internet - the so-called 'Dark Web'. Here you will find hundreds of individuals offering hacked eBay, Paypal and credit card accounts for sale as well as every other illegal activity imaginable. But be cautious and use the Tor browser if you do as you are entering dangerous territory here! You are probably dealing with a career criminal who does this for a living.

 

The person who diddled you has probably done this before and, no doubt, will do it again unless he is caught. These people do leave a trail - the goods are delivered and just maybe your character is using the same techniques and address and possibly accounts to do the same to others. This is why you should 'Google' the details you have to see if there is a pattern. On other Forums you may come across rhetorical questions like - has anyone had problems shipping to this address, or with this eBay ID and so on. There are also Forums where the swindlers are swindled like some of the Nigerian and other African cheaters who got their come uppance. You might get help here and so on.

 

If you can provide evidence that does most of the police work for them and proof you are not a 'one off' you are most likely to be successful in catching who did this to you.

 

But you will have to ask yourself if it is worth all the effort as you are very unlikely to get your money or phone back. The latter is probably already in West Africa doing someone new sterling service.

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this whole episode stinks = if a company trades as PayPal does then they should be accountable as to what transpires on their site, fraud and allowing (albeit not known at the time ) should in all reasonableness put them in bad order and Liable for contact/transaction via their site == fact not fiction! no let out clause, the government/so call non Regulators should be a shamed


:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:

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this whole episode stinks = if a company trades as PayPal does then they should be accountable as to what transpires on their site, fraud and allowing (albeit not known at the time ) should in all reasonableness put them in bad order and Liable for contact/transaction via their site == fact not fiction! no let out clause, the government/so call non Regulators should be a shamed

 

All well and good - but you cannot protect people from themselves. The OP admits they ignored one of Paypal's golden rules by sending the item to an address not registered with them. As has already been said if the OP had sent to the registered address they would have been protected against fraud by Paypal. As much as I dislike Paypal I cannot see how they are in the wrong in this particular instance.

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this whole episode stinks = if a company trades as PayPal does then they should be accountable as to what transpires on their site, fraud and allowing (albeit not known at the time ) should in all reasonableness put them in bad order and Liable for contact/transaction via their site == fact not fiction! no let out clause, the government/so call non Regulators should be a shamed

 

PayPal acted correctly and told the OP not to post to other addresses. The OP made the mistake and is suffering the consequences.

That's fact, not fiction.

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I can't understand who we're protecting here.

The fraudster has got an eBay account and an address where the goods have been signed for.

His account is linked to his own PayPal account otherwise, if it was a hacked account he wouldn't have bothered with a refund.

The only thing that he could be hiding is his name, although very unlikely because to link a card to PayPal they need verification.

If it was me I would plaster the internet with this guy's details so at least to give him some inconvenience to open a different account before stealing from someone else.

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I can't understand who we're protecting here.

The fraudster has got an eBay account and an address where the goods have been signed for.

His account is linked to his own PayPal account otherwise, if it was a hacked account he wouldn't have bothered with a refund.

The only thing that he could be hiding is his name, although very unlikely because to link a card to PayPal they need verification.

If it was me I would plaster the internet with this guy's details so at least to give him some inconvenience to open a different account before stealing from someone else.

 

You just don't know that. The known "buyer" could be innocent.

The buyer's computer could have been hacked / his email compromised.

 

They might never have tried to buy the iPhone, or could have intended to buy it but then "it never arrived".

It depends if the "buyer" who has done the chargeback made the original purchase, or denies doing so.

 

It may be that they did the chargeback because they never made the purchase at all, it may be that they wanted it to come to their address but the fraudster intervened, or they might be the fraudster.

 

Ask the police if they want to ask the buyer / if they want or don't want the OP to ask the buyer!

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No, its more likely his ebay account was hacked at the same time his PayPal was.

Then the item is sent to the hackers drop address and the owner of the account realises someone has fraudulently used his account and starts a chargeback.

Its unlikely the account holder is at fault save for not having enough security on his account.

 

PayPal didn't do anything wrong.

 

The OP DID do something wrong by sending the item to an unknown address. I'm sorry, but yes, I'm defending PayPal here.

The last thing I would imagine the OP wants now is the police knocking at his door asking why he is releasing sensitive personal info onto the web in retaliation.

 

The OP needs to leave this to the police or start a court claim against the buyers account to get to the bottom of the matter.

 

The absolute worst thing he could do is start some sort of web based hate campaign against what could be an innocent party and shame on you king for recommending that course of action.

  • Confused 1

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Didn't recommend anything, I said "I would".

That means if I was in the op's position I would do that.

 

Police is not interested in fraud, theft, domestic violence, threats and all other sorts,

imagine if they could be remotely interested in someone naming a fraudster online.

 

I'm going to speculate here:

The op possibly has emailed the buyer and didn't get a response.

 

A genuine victim would respond and say

"tough luck mate, we were both screwed but I got my money back. Bye!"

 

So question to the op:

Did you contact the buyer after the chargeback to ask his reasons?

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