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    • The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. Paragraphs 1 is noted and accepted that the Defendant has in the past had financial dealings with  Vanquis.I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant and the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request who are yet to fully comply.   2. Paragraph 2 is denied. The claimant pleads that the defendant failed to maintain the required payment, arrears began to accrue. Given that the claimant has failed to comply with my CPR 31.14 request and failed to evidence such fact and would not be in a position as Assignee of debt to know the details of any alleged breach. The defendant has never received a Default Notice from the original creditor. As the claimants plead in their particulars precise knowledge of the default, they are put to strict proof to evidence such fact.   3. Paragraph 3 is denied.The Defendant contends that no notice of assignment pursuant to s.136 of the Law of Property Act & s.82 A of the CCA1974 has ever been served by the Claimant as alleged or at all.   4. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and (c) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   5. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and also my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.   6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   7. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   8. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • I will get my son to upload the video when he gets in. No down hill slope just a small  gradient and from the turning he came out of its maybe 15 shops until the traffic lights. Maybe it didn't get faster but he feels like it did (not clear on the video)  I'm picking him up from work tonight I'll pay attention to the gradient when I go back.   He'd only changed up to 2nd so he wasn't driving fast    Upside he knows now to always be prepared for ice  
    • Not sure why you keep changing your point 1 back to .....   1. The Claimant claims £2247.91 is owed under a regulated consumer credit account under reference xxxxxxx. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant and the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request who are yet to fully comply.   1. Paragraphs 1 is noted and accepted that the Defendant has in the past had financial dealings with  Vanquis.I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant and the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request who are yet to fully comply.   We you the court the claimant already knows ......The Claimant claims £2247.91 is owed under a regulated consumer credit account under reference xxxxxxx. its on the claim form.   Keep it as post #59 add post #66 renumber job done.
    • Hi all   Update, so they still have not provided any statements/documents etc regarding the account (I have the original SAR though) and since the beginning of October I have received a letter stating that they believe the debit is not SB because a payment of £340 was made April/May 2014 (this is credit and refund mentioned earlier in the thread). They have so far not received the statements etc from the bank but will forward them on due course, but if I should contact them to arrange a payment plan.   I have since had a offer of a 50% settlement and then last week a 75% settlement. My view is that they are just hoping I will bite and pay them something but that is not going to happen, I have not communicated to them since that single telephone conversation back in July.   The one thing I have noticed when I use Check My File is that the account status was changed November 7th to Query at Equifax, even though the default expired on November 4th so it should have disappeared by now. The original Satans Bank default was removed on time, but the Cabot account reference is still there albeit not negatively impacting my score it just has a status of 'Q' against November and the balance showing. There is no history showing before November it almost looks like a new account was setup with a Query status against it.   Does anybody have any idea of what is going on here? The cynical side of my is thinking they are forcing me to get in touch with them in writing about the account before their incorrectly perceived April/May SB date passes. I know Equifax does take longer for updates compared to the others agencies and in a few weeks it may be gone.   I'm just wondering what peoples views are, personally my credit score is almost in the excellent bracket and I'm not planning to get any credit soon so it makes no difference to me for now.
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Dottydoris

Panther Logistics Delivery man taking photo inside house

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A short while ago I had a mattress that I'd bought from an online retailer delivered to my house by Panther Logistics.

The delivery process went OK

- they emailed and texted me to give a date and time window for the delivery and they arrived when they said they would.

 

 

They took the New mattress upstairs to the bedroom where it needed to go,

but much to my surprise,

one of the delivery men then quickly whipped out a device which had a camera function from his pocket (not sure if it was a mobile phone, an actual camera or something else) and said he would just take a photo of the mattress in the room before I could even query what he was doing.

 

 

After he had done so I asked why,

and he muttered something about proof of delivery. Is this legal?

I thought you needed the owners permission to take photos inside a privately owned property.

 

I am having another mattress delivered by Panther Ligistics (from the same retailer) tomorrow,

this time for our master bedroom (the previous delivery was for a spare bedroom)

and I feel creeped out about the delivery man wanting to take a photo of our bedroom.

 

 

Can I insist that they don't?

I certainly don't mind signing for the delivery,

but last time there was no physical paperwork as all as all communications were by email or text.

 

Any advice welcome.

Thank you in advance for any insight into this.

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I can understand your issue

 

 

I can also understand the issues these compnies have with people trying to do them over too.

 

 

TBH I cant see it actually 'does' you any real harm.

 

 

dx


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Thanks for the reply dx.

 

 

I can also understand that delivery companies like to have proof that they have delivered.

 

 

But why a photo taken inside my house?

Why not take a photo of the outside of my house taken from the roadside and my signature on some sort of gizmo or piece of paper?

 

 

I feel it's an invasion of my personal privacy,

especially without having been asked if I mind.

 

 

I have heard of delivery firms taking photos of front doors,

bug I think taking a photo inside someone's house is more intrusive.

 

It may not do me any actual harm as such, but it does make me feel uncomfortable.

 

.... should I tidy up the bedroom?!

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yes totally understand.

 

 

here mate I've done this letter for you and me to sign and take with you...

cant be that difficult can it...

 

 

dx


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OK, so if I write out a letter saying something like

 

Received with thanks, item such and such, delivered by Panther Logistics, on date and time,

 

My signature and address and date alongside....

 

That sort of thing?

 

Sorry.... I can't seem to make quotes happen on my iPad while typing here, or any other characters fir that matter.

 

Is there any risk that they might not leave the mattress if I don't agree to them taking a photo? And what if they take a photo against my wishes even if I offer to provide a signed statement confirming delivery?

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Just ask them before they enter if they intend to take pictures inside your house and state that you do not consent to it.

They can then load mattress back on van and you are free to shop elsewhere. Its just their prof that the have not only delivered, but I would guess installed the mattress. Had same thing when gas man installed cooker. He took picks of cooker space showing gas lines etc and then cooker installed in space. Its because some people are sc***mers and the delivery agents need to protect themselves.

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Are there any laws on photography by strangers gong intoi private homes? Perhaps I should google!

 

Maybe I should just tell them to leave the mattress on my Drive and my husband and I will carry the thing in! I don't really care if they take a photo of my Drive!! Wonder what their bosses would say to that? That sort of photo of proof of delivery wouldn't work much in their favour.

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Thanks Grumpy.

But I really need the mattress

- I am having some back pain and I am hoping this mattress will help.

I've had to wait a bit already to get it and it's one that is made to order.

It would be hugely inconvenient if they took it away.

 

 

Thinking this through I think I will ask them to take it upstairs and leave it on the landing.

 

 

I will ask them not to take pictures inside my house at that point, but if they insist I will let them photograph the landing as it is an overall empty type if area without personal belongings and doesn't feel as intrusive.

 

 

It's up to me to tell them where to put it!

I will then query this process out of interest with Panther Logistics.

 

Interestngly Panther advise you in their email to ensure that the delivery guys have clear access to the part of the hose where the delivery item will go etc

 

 

but they don't state other aspects of the delivery process such as taking photos up front.

I think they should do so if that's their usual process and also seek consent.

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Grumpy, I have also already paid for the mattress. If they took it away because I said no photo, it could turn into a major hassle to get it redelivered in a manner I'm comfortable with, or failing that getting a refund and shopping elsewhere!

 

Have other people had snaps being taken of bigger items delivered into their homes? Is this a new thing? I hadn't come across this intrusive practice before.

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Grumpy, I have also already paid for the mattress. If they took it away because I said no photo, it could turn into a major hassle to get it redelivered in a manner I'm comfortable with, or failing that getting a refund and shopping elsewhere!

 

Have other people had snaps being taken of bigger items delivered into their homes? Is this a new thing? I hadn't come across this intrusive practice before.

 

I doubt it is company policy for delivery staff to take pictures. They just need a signature to confirm delivery.

 

I suspect that the Panther delivery person had other reasons for taking the picture, but i would be speculating what the reason was. It could just be that this one delivery person had a complaint made against them about deliveries and they are taking pictures for evidence in case they have a problem with their employers. A lot of these delivery companies don't have good relationships with their delivery staff and expect a volume of deliveries across a large area to be made within times that are unrealistic. If they are given say 5 minutes time window for a delivery to a house, then they might want to evidence that they put the item in a customers upstairs bedroom, so it took a bit longer.


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Unclebulgaria67, but they didn't ask for my signature last time when they delivered the first mattress. Thats why, besides feeling uncomfortable with delivery men I don't know taking picture(s) inside my house, I'm puzzled overall by the fact that a delivery company should expect their drivers to do this - as the delivery guy had led me to believe.

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Unclebulgaria67, but they didn't ask for my signature last time when they delivered the first mattress. Thats why, besides feeling uncomfortable with delivery men I don't know taking picture(s) inside my house, I'm puzzled overall by the fact that a delivery company should expect their drivers to do this - as the delivery guy had led me to believe.

 

I can't see a company asking their drivers to do this, as many people would not be very happy about it.

 

For any future delivery state that you will sign for delivery, but they are not permitted to take pictures as a previous driver did.

 

You could email Panther asking whether it is their companies policy for delivery deliver drivers to take photos inside a customers house.


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Thanks unclebulgaria67, that's my intention. But the second mattress is due today - what with Christmas events and so on I haven't yet got round to doing this in a timely fashion. I doubt that I will get a response to an email that I will send shortly to Panther. But I will query this with the comany anyway as I agree, not many people would be happy with this in my view too.

 

I've discussed the situation some more with my husband and we will ask the delivery men to leave the mattress on the landing as we can manage it easily enough from there. I wil ask them not to take photos inside my house but If they insist on taking a photo as a condition of leaving the mattress with us then I will let them as the landing is less of a personal sort of space, but I will query it with Panther for sure.

 

But my fundamental question I suppose is whether it is legal for people you don't know to take photos inside your home, which is your own private property and not for example being rented, without your consent, for whatever reason they give. The first time round they took a photo without even asking for permission and only gave a garbled reason about proof of delivery when I queried why they had photographed the bedroom.

Edited by Dottydoris

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I can't see that a photo of the inside of a house is proof of delivery to the correct address, could be any room in any house anywhere. I think I'd be a touch bothered by it too and query it with the company.

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make a formal complaint to the company you purchased the item from and see what transpires? once and for all!


:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:

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Yes, I think that's a good point hightail. My husband thinks they probably also took a picture of our front door with house number alongside.... who knows? I have heard of delivery companies taking photos of front doors and a quick google a few minutes ago threw up a newspaper item which reported last year that people were getting upset about this sort of thing as they felt it was an invasion of privacy. Inside the house is an even bigger invasion of privacy in my view. Have just looked at wiki where there is a page on photography legal issues in the U.K., and bingo, people shouldn't take photos inside a private propert without the owners consent and thy should ask permission in the first place! So perhaps there is a valid assumption that this sort of practice is actually illegal?

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Old cogger I will see how the delivery goes today, but I will also definitely raise this with Panther.

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was years ago on deliveries made by an old company I worked for, Intrusion of Privacy, so Formal Complaint as mentioned above


:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:

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Oh, yes I see. I will also contact the company I bought the mattresses from.

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If they insist and it risks the delivery, could you offer to take the photo yourself?

Find out what they want it to show, and ensure it shows that, and only that, and nothing that you don't want photographed.

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OK, the delivery has just happened, and it wasn't a particularly pleasant experience. I was just in the process of formulating an email to Panther Group but that has now been ditched and I have spoken to them instead. This is what happened:

 

Two delivery men arrived (within the time window given so no problem there) and we asked them to put the new mattress up against the wall on the landing. They did this and my husband stood at the end of the landing with man one while I was halfway up the stairs with man two. Man one asked my husband if he could take a photo and my husband said no. Man one said he had to and my husband asked why and man one said something about proof of delivery. I said that the mattress could be anywhere and that the photo wasn’t much evidence even though their van probably keeps track of where they are in the world. I said we didn't want photos taken and I would just sign for delivery.

 

Man two said if they couldn't take the photo they would take the mattress out of the house and put it back on the van to return to the depot! I asked again why the photo was so necessary as we were not willing to give permission, man two said that the photo proves the mattress isn't damaged. I said that didn't make sense as they were only taking a photo of the mattress from one side and it was still inside a thick plastic covering. We let them take a photo in order to keep the already paid for mattress but said we wanted to see the photo after it was taken and said we were worried about this invasion of privacy.

 

They showed me the photo - you wouldn't even know if it was of a mattress!

 

They left and I rang Panther as I felt we had been put under duress to allow them to take the photo otherwise they would remove the mattress and take it away. I told the customer services lady on the phone that I wanted to speak to a manager and she put me through to a 'supervisor'. He was very apologetic and said that our experience should never have happened and taking photos against customer wishes in their home is not acceptable and definitely not company/customer policy. He is going to speak to someone at the depot from where the delivery men were subcontracted and he will get back to me. I think he was genuinely taken aback and kept reiterating that what had happened was out of order especially as we had been threatened with having the goods taken away if we didn't agree to photos. I also told him about the previous mattress delivery and that a photo had been taken of the mattress sited in a bedroom before I could even make a comment or ask a question! I said I wanted to be assured that this sort of thing would not continue happening to other people.

 

I also rang the mattress manufacturer and they were appalled. The person I spoke to said they would escalate the matter to a higher level and contact Panther as well. They will inform me of the outcome. The woman I spoke to agreed it was an invasion of privacy and we should not have been threatened with having the mattress taken back.

 

We felt really quite threatened by delivery man two's attitude, even though I said I had some degree of sympathy with their difficult situation if they were acting under orders which is what they repeated several times. I had no clarity about Panthers policies at that moment in time.

 

The silly thing is that the supervisor at Panther who I spoke with said he had already received a couple of uploaded photos on their system (I thought only one had been taken in the end) and he said they were completely useless as proof of any kind - just a white blob in plastic. The previous mattress delivery though will no doubt have had a clearer photo of the mattress as it looked installed in a room as it was taken from a different and more distant angle.

 

I was also asked to sign for the delivery - it's a pity that wasn’t enough.

 

It will be interesting to see what responses I get. I will post more here when I get them in case this experience is useful to anyone.

Edited by Dottydoris

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Thanks Old Cogger.

 

I have already spoken to them (as mentioned just above) but I will also formulate an email and send it to the email address with the FAO you have given. I will do that later this afternoon as I would like to see what response I get back from Panther before close of business today. No matter what the response is though, I will put it all in writing anyway so that they have it formally 'on record' and having the CEO's name on it might be useful in ensuring that the company tightens and sticks to the policies they say they have in place!

 

I do think this is quite an important issue and that many people out there wouldn't be happy with the experience we've had.

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The phone they take the picture on will have it location confirmed and tied in to the piccy by GPS so even a rubbish picture will be tagged to your address and location within a metre. They could use PDA's that do ther same but a phone is much cheaper and does other things to boot. I would suggest that the subcontract drivers are told one thing when the policy as written down is slightly different but as they are under so much pressure they will be introuble if they then took the time to deviate from the norm. Basically you are suffering because someone has thought up of a way for limiting the company losses by dishonesty and carelessness but they dindt consider the importnace of the feelings of the person thay are employed to serve, namely the recipient. they may work for the company that sends the goods but you pay for it all, directly or indirectly and hopefully some notice will be taken regarding your discomfort at having your personal space intruded upon in this manner. It might be pertinent to ask who else sees these pictures and what happens to them after they become redundant. The DPA may help you here as it goves you a small measure of protection and you can question them about that if you dont get some satisfactory answers to your concerns.

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