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    • so just follow the advice given in the other threads and if they are stupid enough to threaten court action you respond to that but nothing before that.   The barriers might have been removed due to a loack of planning permission so chack with the council. If they know nothing about any of it then enquiries to the land agnets/management co would be in order.
    • "Dear Simple simon" as Simon Renshaw Smith owns the company   drop the reference to your lawyer. if you had one he would be writing this letter dont ask for an explanation,  it only repeats what you say 2 lines later anyway
    • you ignore this begging letter. Also yu check with the council about planning permission, if you cnat find it on the planning portal you ask the council planning dept about any applicatiosn for that address. You cnat assume things but you can state that you do not belive they have the necessary contracts/permissions/consents because they have failed to provide them when requested under CPR 31.14 now there is a thing called Standard Disclosure for all civil proceedings (CPR 31.6) so they cant wriggle out of it so easily as that includes anything that adversely affects their case so if they wont produce their contract with the LL then you can say that you believe they have failed to do so because it aversely affects their case. they are then caught by the "when did you stop beating your wife" impossibility.   make sure that you have all documents you need to avoid them throwing it back at you but generally there wont be an equivalent if you arent the driver!  
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scb66

DVLA fine for breaking down on way to MOT

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In September this year I was driving my SORNED 29 year old car to an MOT in Penge as there is a classic Citroen specialist who looks after said cars.

 

I broke down at the traffic lights in Crystal Palace causing untold mayhem during the beginnings of the Friday rush hour.

 

The police passed by, but didn't stop to help.

Two young men helped me push the car to safety and allowed the traffic to flow.

 

I waited for the breakdown recovery people to arrive for two hours and when they did, the journey continued to Penge

- a mere two or three miles down the road.

 

It was there that we found out the car could not fit on the ramp in the garage

on Friday evening the car was left safely off the road but on the pavement where people park, causing no trouble whatsoever.

 

I left a note in the windscreen window with my phone number if there was a problem, clear to see.

 

On the following Monday I started ringing around the garages I knew who could handle the problem of the clutch.

 

On this model, the engine has to come out so the clutch can be accessed to be fixed so it's not a quick one

- it is a two day job and the complexity means that most will not touch it.

 

The garages were busy and no one could take in the car

- one quote was for November

- a few weeks off at this point

 

On the Tuesday I was referred to a service in Erith that specialised in clutches but he could not take the car in till Friday.

 

imagine my surprise when mid week I learn that the DVLA has clamped my car.

I asked the DVLA to reconsider by phone

only to find that it required the car to have road tax and MOT within 14 days.

 

Funny, but that had been the original idea.

 

However the unpleasant unhelpful voice at the other end of the line informed me that in any refund I would only get about a third back.

 

I waited till the Friday as the car clearly wasn't going anywhere until that day and called the DVLA to de-clamp the car.

 

The money was paid and a young lady arrived to remove the clamp.

I engaged her with conversation whereupon the following was confirmed:

 

1) The DVLA looks out for cars that are clearly owned to penalise heavily.

This includes cars that have broken down and cars which have not updated their road tax.

 

2) The DVLA ignores dumped cars and leaves those to the local authorities (as there is no money to be made in fines so the cost of dumping is borne by the taxpayer).

 

3) Effectively the DVLA has no problem leaving people who are already stranded through no fault of their own in an even more vulnerable position and uses its right to clamp, irrespective of notes left clearly in the car.

 

In fact a note left in the car seems to indicate to a clamper that the fine would definitely be paid - hence money to be made.

 

I then waited for several hours until the RAC arrived,

and by the time they did,

the garage in Erith was closing for the weekend.

 

The car was trailered back to its garage and pushed into place .

It was a disastrous week just trying to get an MOT,

and the end result left me very angry, extremely stressed, substantially out of pocket, and exhausted.

 

The car will stay in its garage for either the duration of the Turpinesque fine or until the fine is returned in full and I can get the car mot'd with a working clutch

 

whereupon I will buy road tax,

without conditions of any sort attached.

 

I believe that this fine has been wrongly applied.

 

I wanted the car on the road to be used,

not sitting in a garage,

just keeping dry,

 

but clearly the odds of having a trouble-free effort to get the car on the road again were stacked against me as much by circumstance as the authorities looking to cash in on an individual's unfortunate situation.

 

If this is the way that they intentionally treat those who are attempting to do the right thing, then it is inevitable that there must be a subsequent spike in illegality regarding un-taxed road use, and frankly on the basis of my experience, the DVLA would completely deserve it - such is the price for random advocacy for highway robbery in the first place.

 

I am now at the point of issuing proceedings against the DVLA and the named recipient will be its Chief Exec Morley.

 

Has anyone else incurred a problem like this

H - where the have taken a SORNed car to the mot station and broken down and been clamped.

 

I shall be requesting an FOI on such from the DVLA,

but to date their obfuscation means that this is likely to take months.

 

if anyone has any such information about equally unjust fines and clamping on this subject and how they dealt with the matter I would be very grateful to hear from them.

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You parked on the pavement

That's part of the public highway

 

For all you ranting and 'its unfair' bully boy state comments...

 

Bottom lines is you left an untaxed car on the public highway

 

Not a lot you can say or do about it being clamped sadly

 

Dx


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Thankyou for your response. I take it that despite it being untaxed (as without an MOT it cannot be taxed -it was due to be taxed after MOT) it is something that is believed to be a fair judgement by the DVLA? That is considered acceptable by you? Is it a case of Rules is Rules?

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No. Its a case of you parked an untaxed vehicle on the public highway. There's no grey area. You either did or you didn't.

 

Simple as that.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

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So if anyone breaks down on their way to an MOT (in order to comply with the road laws), including taking it off SORN and taxing it, in such conditions they should just accept the fine? This sounds incredibly defeatist.

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you left it there for a week ..!!

 

it was possible passed over for a few days

but a week is taking the mickey IMHO.

 

even if the police had of helped you instead of driving by

..it would still have been there for a week.

 

even if the DVLA weren't so bolshie on the phone, or committed highway robbery..IYHO

it was still there for a week.

 

shame you didn't put your hazard warning lights on as well..

as they're supposed to be some kind of magic immunity for people that park like tits round here.

then winge when they get a ticket. I had my haxard lights on..

 

no seriously..

 

they gave you until mid week before clamping your car

so it wasn't anything draconian or state sponsored


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They gave two working days before they clamped.

 

As I have already stated,

getting the car in anywhere was not happening,

despite endless phoning around.

 

A note was left visible in the car with my phone number if there had been a problem.

 

It is interesting that despite the ensuing difficulties of the situation that followed my intent to get the car road legal there is a belief that I was mickey taking.

 

The stress dealing with this problem was horrific.

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yes but p'haps it might have been better to atleast move the car.

 

you had by your own admission 2 days notice.

 

its not the DVLA's problem you didn't move it.

 

dx


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I thought that cars over a certain age (Historic Vehicle) didn't need an MOT or tax... but if it was booked in for a test, and insured, you should be ok.. But you must never park on the pavement...TB

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They don't need tax. You're right. But you still have to declare it and get it registered along with a valid mot. It works exactly like any other vehicle. Just the DVLA registers it as exempt when you file the form.

 

 

If you think you're above the law or you think you've been treated harshly, feel free to appeal and stand in front of a judge and explain what happened.

 

You left it there for an entire week despite them telling you about it and despite the law saying you cannot park on a pavement. Plus there's the whole thing about an untaxed and no mot vehicle on the public road. Not to mention uninsured.

 

You were told.about it via highway code and doing driving lessons and passing your test plus everything you've learned since. A silly letter on the windshield doesn't absolve you from breaking the law. But the DVLA gave you a chance to move it, you didn't, so they considered you to be evading the law or be ignorant of it

 

 

 

Bite the bullet, admit you're wrong and pay the fine. Otherwise it's about to get a whole lot worse.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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I thought that cars over a certain age (Historic Vehicle) didn't need an MOT or tax...

They don't need tax. You're right...

 

To be considerd a 'Historic' vehicle, it has to be at least 40 years old, so currently registered before 1st Jan 1976.

 

...Not to mention uninsured...

 

Who said the vehicle wasn't insured ?

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If its sorn, its likely not to be. If it was then i apologise. But it makes no difference. No tax, no mot, parked on public highway, given a warning, ignored the warning then clamped.

 

As for the tax comment, i replied to his question. I didnt say the car was exempt. I replied to his question. The above statement still stands, as does dx's remarks.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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I agree the car shouldn't have been left on the public highway, it could have been taken to any garage, not just a Citroen specialist.

 

I am surprised the Police passed him by, as ANPR would have flagged the lack of MOT, VED (and possibly insurance), and would have been easy pickings.

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exactly. But thats int he past now. He has to deal with the consequences. He parked illegally, he was given time to remove the vehicle. He didnt, and it got clamped. DVLA wont care about excuses now.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Some interesting statements here.

 

In order to comply with the law I was getting the car MOT'd. I was attempting to get the car to a mechanic who understood the complexity but they were all busy. At least those that could deal with the car. It has a complicated system for repair because it is an old Citroen.

 

Someone mentioned I should have taken it to any garage. Any garage would not accept it. Most garages are short of space and will not take in cars they cannot repair just to get it off the road.

 

I was trying to get the car from breakdown to repair facility and information was left on the dash with my contact details to verify.

 

The fine was paid at the time.

 

I left it after it had been clamped till the Friday because the DVLA informed me it would be re-clamped if they removed it and I hadn't got a repair facility for it to go into. Fine cost £260.00 so leaving it another couple of days after clamping saved repeat situation.

 

The car is 29 years old and not part of the Historic Vehicles set as yet.

 

"You left it there for an entire week despite them telling you about it (despite them telling me about it? What did they tell me about it?) and despite the law saying you cannot park on a pavement." (This is wrong. See later)

 

"If its sorn, its likely not to be. If it was then I apologise" The car was sorn as outlined in the first line of the account.

 

"A silly letter on the windshield doesn't absolve you from breaking the law." Jeeez.....anyone was thinking from your response that I was setting out to break the law.

 

"Bite the bullet, admit you're wrong and pay the fine. Otherwise it's about to get a whole lot worse." That sounds threatening but actually I paid the fine at the time. I broke down with a complicated car and did my best to get it sorted as quickly as possible. Biting bullets and admitting wrong as though I intentionally defied the DVLA/ Highway Rules is missing the point completely.

 

"Plus there's the whole thing about an untaxed and no mot vehicle on the public road. Not to mention uninsured. " Wrong. The car is insured. Laws like this exist to stop illegality; not those trying to comply with the law who, through no fault of their own, get stuck.

 

The pavement was used by other motorists to park their cars. The pavement was very wide and I could have parked another car alongside so no actual pedestrian obstruction was caused. The road was left free for all traffic including pick up trucks. In fact when the pick up truck parked on the pavement there was still room for pedestrians with prams. Some pavements are used legitimately for parking particularly in urban areas, including outside my own house. It isn't a case of 'you must never park on a pavement' because there are exceptions, and quite a few of them.

 

I don't like dumped cars any more than the next person. My car was clearly not dumped. Incidentally in case you are unaware, the DVLA doesn't fine/clamp cars that have no obvious ownership. That is, if an old heap lies in your street -untaxed, uninsured etc they won't do anything about it. You know why? Well according to the DVLA official who unlocked the clamp "there's no money in it so we leave that to the local authorities". The local authorities pay for that and that means the taxpayer foots the bill.

 

Yes the police drove on at the traffic lights in one of their vans with a couple of burly policemen in the back that could have pushed me out of the way. But they ignored that predicament so thankfully a couple of members of the public came to my help.

 

Everything I was doing was an attempt to get the car legalised. People have been quick to jump down my throat about leaving my car for a week (which wasn't the case - I was doing my damnedest to get it in for repair) - explanations already given.

 

Most of the comments here have been along the lines of 'that's the law get on with it'. The law is made but should allow for instances where this kind of incident occurs. Intent on legality should be taken into account.

 

I sincerely hope none of you get caught in such an unpleasant circumstance, and find that the best response from a consumer group, apart from being inaccurate and insulting (e.g." Not to mention uninsured", "silly letter on the windshield") is people saying 'rules is rules'. We should all be able to do better than that. This isn't consumer action; it is consumer defeatism.

 

They don't need tax. You're right. But you still have to declare it and get it registered along with a valid mot. It works exactly like any other vehicle. Just the DVLA registers it as exempt when you file the form

 

If you think you're above the law or you think you've been treated harshly, feel free to appeal and stand in front of a judge and explain what happened.

 

You left it there for an entire week despite them telling you about it and despite the law saying you cannot park on a pavement. Plus there's the whole thing about an untaxed and no mot vehicle on the public road. Not to mention uninsured.

 

You were told.about it via highway code and doing driving lessons and passing your test plus everything you've learned since. A silly letter on the windshield doesn't absolve you from breaking the law. But the DVLA gave you a chance to move it, you didn't, so they considered you to be evading the law or be ignorant of it

 

Bite the bullet, admit you're wrong and pay the fine. Otherwise it's about to get a whole lot worse.

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there is nothing for us to sadly 'action'.

 

 

you parked a car with no tax on the pavement which is part of the highway for a whole week


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You're looking for excuses. There isn't any. The law is clear. You broke it and thing you can evade it. If you honestly think you have a case, appeal it and have your day in court.

 

You never know you may get lucky and escape prosecution for all of it. However you also have to be aware that if found guilty the penalty will be much higher than it is right now if you pay up and follow the law.

 

 

We're trying to help you here. You seem to be adamant you didn't break the law. If you were trying to get the car repaired then you should have put the car on private land. Not on the public highway.

 

Otherwise everyone else would be doing it and escaping the penalties. The laws there for a reason. Follow it.

 

I'm sorry if I come across as harsh but you're in no different circumstances to anyone else.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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As others have noted, the fine wasn't for breaking down.

It was for having a SORN'd vehicle on the public highway.

 

If you had had it moved (once broken down) to private land until the garage could deal with it, and had it taken to the garage at that point : would you have been fined?.

 

That is not a consumer issue. It is an "understanding of SORN and its implications" issue.

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I don't like dumped cars any more than the next person. My car was clearly not dumped. Incidentally in case you are unaware, the DVLA doesn't fine/clamp cars that have no obvious ownership. That is, if an old heap lies in your street -untaxed, uninsured etc they won't do anything about it. You know why? Well according to the DVLA official who unlocked the clamp "there's no money in it so we leave that to the local authorities". The local authorities pay for that and that means the taxpayer foots the bill.

 

 

Not quite, there may be 'no money in it' for the DVLA contractor (not a DVLA official) for clamping abandoned vehicles, but it is the DVLA who prosecute for the offence of keeping an unlicensed vehicle, abandoned or not, which is the same offence that you have committed - contrary to s.29, Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1994.

The 14 days you mentioned is a time limit for a partial refund of the clamping fee if the vehicle is licensed within those 14 days.

 

 

As your car was the subject of an off road notification it is only exempt from the requirement to be licensed if it is not on a public road, or being taken for an MOT test.

 

 

What you should have done is had your car moved off the public road while you tried to arrange for it to be repaired, rather than leaving it unlicensed on a public road, which is what has caused the problem for you.

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I thought that cars over a certain age (Historic Vehicle) didn't need an MOT or tax...

 

 

Historic vehicles are required to be licensed in the same way as other vehicles, it is just that no excise duty is payable. They do not need an MOT.

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Vehicle registered prior to 1960 no longer require an mot cert, I understand, but have to be roadworthy if on a public road.

 

I have two motorcycles that come under this legislation.

 

Insurance is still required, of course.

 

Sam


All of these are on behalf of a friend.. Cabot - [There's no CCA!]

CapQuest - [There's no CCA!]

Barclays - Zinc, [There's no CCA!]

Robinson Way - Written off!

NatWest - Written off!

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As far as I am aware, it is never lawful to park on the pavement unless there are white broken lines to allow it, as in very narrow roads... TB

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You have broken the law if you parked on the pavement and you have also broken the law if you parked on any public highway without insurance, tax or an MOT, (or it's equivalent), even if you have broken down whilst en route to the MOT station.

 

Also, if you are on your way to get the car MOT'd, you need proof that it is officially booked in, because you can't even drive to the MOT station if it hasn't been booked in.

You can't leave your car for a week on the public highway...it is not a free car park for unroadworthy or SORN(ed) vehicles.

You'd be wasting your time appealing, to be honest. TB

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