EBay: I think buyer damaged item and now is seeking a full refund

[SusanSpain]

I have been a happy and successful EBayer for the past 7 years.

(With the odd minor disappointment of something I have bought. But no major crisis/hassles.)

 

But as a seller I have a buyer who has received the goods as described (An expensive sewing machine),

which was fully serviced and passed as GWO by the technician before dispatch.

(I have this in writing, but reading the other experiences here I don't know how much sway it will have.)

 

I admit there were 3 small items missing from the box (2 of which are essential to its working and 1 optional.)

I have provided replacements of these items (even though 2 were not listed on the item description.)

 

But now the buyer says the machine is not working.

She has had it 3 weeks (although I know she was away on holiday for at least one week of this.)

 

She is now sending me rude emails (not quite verging on threatening/abusive, but very angry ones.)

I did offer her a partial refund, but she has refused that.

I then phoned ebay for advice.

 

As many have reported here they are siding with the buyer, and not even helping me with the proper information to protect myself.

The next stage apparently is that if I do not respond to her requests for a full refund (and I am expected to swallow the 50 quid postage fee),

she will be opening a case against me.

 

And this is the point where I start losing further

- i.e if they rule in her favour (which they will reading the above experiences),

I then lose all my final fees and postage fees and PPal fees that I have already paid.

 

It is a difficult choice to make. To believe someone who could quite likely be lying (for whatever reason only known to them), or to give in.

 

I am prepared to run with it a bit longer. But it is looking quite grim.

Opening a case against her after its return seems inevitable, but what will EBay do then?

 

I have a 100% unblemished record (Over 130 positive feedback replies as a buyer and seller) and now my Pay Pal account is suspended and a debit looming over my head.

 

Also I am shocked that PPal can take the money out of my bank account to cover the refund. (We are talking a few hundred pounds, not just a few pence.)

 

I have already spoken to my bank and they say there is nothing I can do about it and that PPal are a 'law unto themselves.'

And I would have to dispute the unauthorized withdrawal after the event.

 

My partner is all for giving a full refund, (it was their item in the first place!)

But I am the one who has to do all the returns and deal with EBay etc.

 

Not sure what to do...

 

(PS I have been against the new EBay charges since they were implemented, but what is the alternative?

I cannot do local buy/sell as I am often away from home.)

Edited May 26, 2015 by citizenB

[citizenB]

This something we see quite a lot of on CAG and it is very worrying. It is most unfair that Ebay can arbitrarily side with the buyer and even to the point of in once cagger's experience, the buyer was told to "destroy the item" after ebay had refunded them.

[SusanSpain]

Citizen B.

I think I will be going to collect the unwanted item in person.

A. To save myself the 50 quid postal charges and

B. I am very close to the buyer.

(Although when the item was originally sent my daughter had it further up country and it was not possible, so it was posted.)

 

 

I will face the buyer out, as she has in fact offered to 'come round and see me' (as in veiled threat to tell me what is what.)

I will then have to argue with EBay to get my fees back. (As I am choosing NOT to give in at this early stage by giving a full refund,

plus postage costs, until I am ordered to do so.)

 

 

I have a feeling I know that the outcome will be due to the posts on here, but I feel I have to try what I can.

I am taking the item immediately to a specialist en route home for an inspection and if they say it is in full working order,

or that it is damaged, either way I feel I have some sort of case against the buyer.

 

NB EBay are crazy to do this as I have brought them several hundreds (if not into 1,000's now) in fees. I still don't get their logic!

[citizenB]

We would be interested to hear how you get on. Perhaps take someone with you as a witness (protection) !

[dx100uk]

cancel the CPA with your bank.

 

 

they can't refuse.

 

 

dx

[jennifer19]

Okay firstly, The buyer HAS to pay the return postage costs to you. So you will not be covering the return fee's.

 

As you never stated a few minor things in the item description the buyer has every right to send the item back, As technically it is, "IND" If it comes in worse damage to you then you sent it out, You can always take pictures of the reports and upload them onto the claim. PayPal will take this into consideration.

 

Your postage fee's was a contract between you and them, They have delivered their part. And do not have to refund you in any way as they done what they're supposed to do.

 

If it's in the same state you sent it out, Then it seems you will have to refund. And try and re-sell to someone else, But make sure you list every single detail.

 

Your account is suspended, Does it say you can appeal the suspension?

[SusanSpain]

Hi Jennifer,

I am confused by your post ^

 

Are you saying the BUYER has to cover the return postage costs, no matter the reason for the return?

 

I agree with you re being 100% honest about a listing description. (This has been one area I am always careful on as I know it could lead to issues later.)

However, I was unable to see what was in the box myself, as I was selling on behalf of a family member, and went entirely on the list they gave me. This is also why I did not mention specific accessories (some which can be purchased as extras for the machine), as I didn't want to mislead anyone.

However, I do accept responsibility that 3 basic components were missing (if the buyer is telling the truth), and purchased replacements as soon as I could and had them mailed to the buyer. (She declined the third part as by then she wanted to return the machine.) Unfortuatley she did not give me a list of all the items at the beginning, but a week later would say I don't have X etc (when states she has expert experience in using this kind of machine, and also the manual of what came in the box originally, where I had neither.)

 

The buyer however, mislead me on several occasions (as she stated her level of knowledge in sewing was far superior to mine, which is it, as I have nil! Likewise, the family member I was liasing with did not have enough knowledge to give me a detailed list. But at the time I did not think things through. I now realize this in hindsight.)

 

The buyer told me at one point the machine could not be used at all, as it had no foot pedal. But I then found out from reading the machine manual online that it can be operated manually too. I do not know why she told me this, other than to perhaps try and make me buy the missing part, which I would have done anyway without any misleading information. (I have a good rating as an EBayer for a reason.)

 

My main concern is that the machine was fully serviced before it was sent out (at a cost of 75 pounds to us), to ensure it was in full working order like the advert said.

How it has stopped working between the repair shop and the buyer I do not know. (The item was sent in its original makers box which is very sturdy indeed, so it is very unlikely in the extreme that it got damaged in transit.)

 

I am going to continue with where we are at now in a separate post...

 

NB The person who suggested contacting my bank to stop the automatic transfer, my bank told me they could not refuse to pay a payment, and that I had to dispute it after the fact.

 

My EBay account was not suspended, but the fact that my PPal account had insufficient funds in meant that it was pointless continuing to sell my listings as I would have no way of carrying out the financial aspect.

[SusanSpain]

Update: After receiving various threatening emails from the buyer, including the fact she 'knew where I lived and was coming round', and the prospect of losing my Ebay and PPal fees forever (as it would seem from reading people's experiences here that there seems very little chance the seller has any protection these days, despite the wording on the EBay policy pages.)

I gave the woman a full refund.

(This has also freed up my PPal account and I can re-list my other items for sale.)

 

It is shocking to see reading the EBay guidelines (re policy) on threats, that when it escalates, they wash their hands of it and only suggest you go to the Police.

The woman also had done some 'research' on me and used many personal details about my work place, profession etc (I am a member of Linkedin and have my own business website too), in her messages along with the veiled threats. *This I shall most certainly be reporting to EBay as this kind of behaviour should not be tolerated. (I have all the messages via the EBay secure site of course and stopped corresponding with the woman via my private email immediately I realised there was an issue early on.)

 

As my father is nearly 90 (and I live with him when not working away), I decided it was not fair to put him at risk, so paid her the money.

 

I have little hope that EBay will consider these threats, or the fact that the machine was sent out in working order. (Again I have proof of this in the receipt from the service engineer.)

 

I am due to meet the woman in question to retrieve the machine in the next two weeks (as she is bound by EBay T's & C's to return the item in this time frame once a refund has been received.)

I will of course, be taking a friend!

 

The whole thing has left me feeling the new 'Buyer Protection' is totally weighted in favour of the buyer, no matter what.

Likewise, EBay policy on assisting Sellers and offering them 'protection' is not worth the ink on the screen.

 

I will be writing to EBay after the event with all my evidence, but have little hope of a positive response.

 

I think from this experience I can only advise people NOT to sell on EBay, or if you do, keep it to smaller/lower value items (say under 30 quid) so that if this kind of thing happens to you, it is not hundreds of pounds,

but just a few that are at stake.

[SusanSpain]

Jennifer ^

From EBay returns policy it is the SELLER that has to cover return postage costs. So I am still confused by your posting:

 

"When an item is returned to the seller

The buyer must return the item in the same condition in which it was received.

The seller is required to accept the return at the same location specified in the listing.

The cost of return postage is the seller’s responsibility. For items being returned with a total cost of £750 or more, signature confirmation is required.

The seller pays for any customs charges on the returned item."

[renegadeimp]

The post is concerning as she is s brand new poster and registered that day. Perhaps its the buyer herself ?

[SusanSpain]

Sorry Renedageimp I don't understand your post ^. I am writing as the seller, and I feel I have a genuine complaint against the buyer and EBay. I have just added up my losses (including the devaluation of the machine now it is rendered only fit for parts). The total is approx 450 poounds.

I know I am new here, but I just needed to find out out peoples experiences and perhaps find a way through this mess. I feel for the people who have also experienced what I am going through (it is not over yet as I still have to meet with the buyer and collect the item. I am doing this rather than paying 50 quid postage all over again.)

PS You are welcome to PM me if there is a facility on this site. I am a genuine poster and contribute to many forums and run several charitable groups on Face Book.

[renegadeimp]

Not you. I meant jennifer19

[CrappoMan]

It is named 'Buyer Protection' not 'Dispute Resolution' for a reason. Expect ebay/paypal to do nothing for you.You have the buyers name and address. If you have proof to backup your claims then make an MCOL claim.

[SusanSpain]

Thank you Renedageimp. (Was thinking I was going bonkers! Although I am currently in this state of affairs

 

CrappoMan - yes, you hit it on the head. Thank you for the suggestion of MCOL. I had never heard of it before. (Sadly I feel I have to let the whole thing go once item collected, as I am concerned for the safety of my elderly father.) As I say, if he had not been part of the equation I think I would be going all the way!

[jennifer19]

The Buyer HAS to pay the return cost. If this went in a claim, eBay would either give them a return label or they have to cover the costs.

 

I think I should know considering, I've been in a dispute before. No matter the reason, Even if the seller was at fault the buyer would be expected to pay the fee and make sure the item gets to the seller safely, As it's no longer the sellers property its the buyers.

 

In my experience this has been the case.

 

The whole, It must be returned in the same condition, They received it. Is aload of crap. We all know soon as eBay see's item delivered on the tracking they refund the buyer straight away and close the case.

 

Just because I've only just joined, Doesn't make me the buyer at all.

[renegadeimp]

but it does make it a bit suspicious. But we have no proof either way. so all advice is welcomed.

[jennifer19]

Exactly. But if I was the buyer, I would be saying the seller should cover it etc, I wouldn't be trying to put myself out of pocket now would

[SusanSpain]

Jennifer, please can you advise me where on EBay T's & C's that it is the BUYER who has to pay the return costs please. If this is the case I will be making sure the buyer either posts the item back to me, or brings it in person to my house. (Although I am reluctant to do the latter as they have threatened my family.)

I will possibly ring EBay in the morning and ask them. (Although I get so frustrated (and infuriated) they are non native English speakers on the end of the line and at the end of the day they don't give a monkeys.

 

I did see that EBay charge for a return label, (2.99 I think) if you chose not to print your own... But it still implied the cost was down to the seller???

Confused ????

[jennifer19]

It says in the seller protection that the buyer must pay the return fee.

 

But in the buyers protection its the seller, I'd say contact eBay and ask them, You can do this via the live chat.

 

I'm going to as I wanna know why, When I was in a dispute as a buyer, I HAD to pay. When I was in a dispute as the seller, The buyer had to pay.