Millennium parking services/Gladstones claim form - PCN Metropole Chambers, Swansea

[Wi3347]

Morning all,

 

I have been given a PCN by Millennium parking services.

I ignored the windscreen PCN and have now received the notice to keeper in the post.

 

They identify themselves as "the creditor" and state they do not know who was driving, so no suggestion i was driving only i am the registered keeper.

 

In short,

there is a little back alley in Swansea,

on one side there are parking spaces that are council controlled,

on the other side there is a little square of concrete, just about big enough to fit 2 cars on,

not marked with parking spaces but with signs up from Millennium parking.

 

 

I parked there for about 20 minutes at 9:40 at night,

not affecting anyone's business or trade and for that they have decided i owe them £100.

 

I'm not going to pay it based on the principle that I have caused no inconvenience or loss of money to anyone

 

 

I see no reason that I should just give them £100 just because they have decided to put up a sign on this random slab of concrete and decided that anyone stopping there must pay £100!!

 

My intention was to write them a letter stating that as the keeper only i challenge the PCN on the basis that the signs are ambiguous and hard to read as there is very little lighting at the location and the PCN was issued in darkness. The amount requested is extravagant and unconscionable and cannot be justified.

 

ive posted on here before and had some cracking advice so i look forward to replies, hope you are all having a good Christmas period!

 

Thank you

Kind regards

47

[AndyOrch]

Hi Wi3347 and Welcome to CAG

 

I have moved your thread to the appropriate forum...please continue to post here.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

hi ya

 

 

please fill this out:

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

[Homer67]

Provide the info in DX's post above and take a photo of the sign noting where the signs are lit or unlit at the same time. You won't be paying so don't worry.

[Wi3347]

hello everyone, hope you all had a good xmas! info below

 

For windscreen tickets (NTD) please answer the following questions....

 

1 The date of infringement - 15/11/2016

2 Did you appeal to the parking company? not yet

If not,

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) what date is on it - NTK date of issue 15/12/2016 received 18/12/2016

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? Yes, photos on the NTK

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) - No mention of PoFA

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK, - Havent appealed yet.

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

 

5 Who is the parking company? - Millennium Door and Event Security Ltd

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? - Metropole Chambers, Swansea

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under - The link says IPC?

Thank you all,

 

kind Regards

[ericsbrother]

I sure we have had another post about a ticket from here but the poster didnt come back and tell us what if anything has happened after we advised.

 

Post up the NTK and we will comment on it and advise accordingly.

 

 

The advice may well be ignore them for the moment or to write a short response just to show that you arent ignoring them but they have no reason to claim anything.

[Wi3347]

Would you like me to post a picture of the NTK? if so how do i upload that on here? must admit i find navigating the site a bit confusing

 

Regards

47

[dx100uk]

click upload^^

 

 

dx

[Wi3347]

Afternoon all, worked out how to convert and upload the files.

 

Regards

47

MPG2.pdf

MPG1.pdf

[ericsbrother]

their NTK is not POFA compliant,

they miss out several important things such as who the creditor is and they use the wrong notice period for the driver, which is 28 days not 21.

 

They cant change the law unilaterally so they are stuffed as far as making you liable for the debt of the driver, who is obviouly unknown to them and you are not obliged to tell them who it was.

 

Whay to do next?

 

Well I would ignore their deadlines and make them chase you and in the meanwhile get those pictures we asked for to bolster your position when you do rebut their claim.

[Wi3347]

In the third paragraph they do identify themselves as the creditor. I will take photos of the signs and upload them this afternoon.

 

Regards

[ericsbrother]

then where is their address for the service of legal documents? part of the same para of the POFA. Also they claim they will recover other costs- they cant of relying on POFA for keeper liability rather than claiming a contractual right from driver.

[Wi3347]

and THAT is why i always come to the CAG...

[Wi3347]

just to confirm the advice at the moment is ignore and upload photos of the signage? il take a photo when its dark so you can see how difficult they are to read at the time i parked.

[ericsbrother]

I dont care how difficult it is to see whe it is dark, I want to be able to read it. If the matter gets to court then that argument may well be persuasive but for the moment we are miles away from there, we need to know what to say in a letter to them.

[zydeco]

Most of ppc signs are unreadable in the dark. What matters is what they say.

Readability argument comes later, and is usually a winner.

[Wi3347]

ahh, i am with you now. Sorry everyone, i have been away for a while with work. will get the pictures up ASAP.

 

Regards

47

[Wi3347]

sorry for the delay! here is the sign

 

the sign says they are a member of the BPA when i dont believe they are.

 

Surely that must have some sway if they are printing stuff on their sign that isnt true?

MPG sign.pdf

[dx100uk]

says they are a member of both?

[Wi3347]

it does.

It says the are part of IPC when i checked the online index.

Is it possible to be a member of both?

[ericsbrother]

it is possible but they arent and that is therefore a misleading sign as it appears to offer a different contract disputes servcie than they actually use.

 

Not that importnat at this stage but very important if they try and sue you as you can demand to use an ADR they cant!

 

signage is prohibitive is the main point here anyway.

 

You didnt have a permit so you cant breach the contract as you are a mere trespasser.

[Wi3347]

Im with you so far. Would you ignore at this point or write a letter about their signage?

[Wi3347]

i was going to ignore but based on the fact that they have passed the above onto solicitors (debt collectors in disguise)

im going to post them a letter stating that as registered keeper there is no liability as their signs are illegal.

 

Claiming to be part the BPA when they are not is fraud by false representation.

 

Also the fact their signs are illegal,

inaccurate,

poorly lit

and difficult to read

means they are not fit for purpose to deter people from unknowingly entering into a contract with them and the contract therefore never existed.

[ericsbrother]

this is where you may make a fool of yourself because illegal, unlawful and unenforceable are all very different things.

 

As in your case they failed to create keeper liability under the POFA just tell them that, nothing else,

no mention of their signage,

no mention of fraud etc.

 

 

All the other detail about the signs will only make them think that you are huffing and puffing and they may well take advantage of that.

[Wi3347]

I do trust your advice so I will write them a simple letter stating that as the registered keeper they have failed to create keeper liability as their Signs are not POFA compliant.

 

Im not huffing and puffing

but i thought it worth mentioning that the reason there is no keeper liability it that the signs are not only non pofa complaent but illegal.

 

You cannot say someone has entered into a contract with you via illegal signage.