Taken off ESA due to medical Refused JSA

[rdm2006]

Can anyone help.

 

Due to depression and anxiety i was on esa, i was in the support group and allowed to do permitted work.

 

I failed my assessment and have been taken off ESA. on all other occasions i have been told that permitted work will have to stop so that is what i did this time.

 

I am now being refused full jsa because i stopped the permitted work. I did ask what i should do about permitted work when they told me i could not claim esa anymore but no one seemed to know so that is why i finished as that had been the case before.

[antone]

First off, do you intend to appeal the decision to stop your ESA? If you do, submit the Mandatory Reconsideration ASAP - this is a separate issue from your entitlement to JSA, so don't wait until you get the JSA thing sorted.

 

However, with regard to the Permitted Work, I would also ask for the decision to sanction your JSA to be reconsidered as well. The whole point about PW is that you can stop it without threat to your benefit. Now, granted, you can't do PW while you're on JSA, but I would argue that stopping PW because your ESA ended is not the same things as "leaving employment voluntarily" for JSA purposes.

[tommy456]

Also if you are appealing the WCA decision you should be able to claim Income support instead of JSA,but you may have to wait until the MR decision, not sure on if you can get IS before MR,This would have the benefit of not having to jump through the JC+'s Hoops and risk of sanctions if you fail to do as they want

[antone]

You can only claim IS on the grounds of being a carer or a lone parent of a child aged under 5. However, you can claim ESA while waiting for an appeal to be heard, provided what you're appealing is a points failure of the WCA. No ESA is payable while waiting for the result of the MR, though, which is why people end up struggling with JSA claims when they really shouldn't be forced to jump through all of those hoops.

[tommy456]

It isn't what it says here http://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Out-Of-Work-Benefit-Claimed

 

Income Support

 

Income Support (IS) is extra money to help people on a low income. Only certain people are allowed to claim Income Support. You may be able to get this if you are:

 

• entitled to statutory sick pay (SSP)
  
• appealing against a decision that you are capable of work following a work capability assessment (WCA)
  
• caring for someone and either you are getting Carer's Allowance, or the person you are looking after gets Attendance Allowance (AA) or constant Attendance Allowance, the middle or highest rate of Disability Living Allowance (DLA) care component, or a daily living component of Personal Independence Payment
  
• a lone parent and responsible for a child under 5.
  
• pregnant and incapable of work because of your pregnancy or due to have your baby within the next 11 weeks or have had a baby within the last 15 weeks.
  

even the Gov's own blurb eludes to being able to claim IS if you are not able to work because you are sick/disabled https://www.gov.uk/income-support/eligibility

[antone]

This is old information. You cannot claim IS while appealing against an ESA WCA failure. You can claim ESA.

 

You cannot make a new claim for IS if you are sick or unable to work. You must claim ESA. Your gov.uk link says that you can receive IS "in some cases" if you are sick and unable to work. The only people who recieve IS for that reason are those who have an existing claim.

 

Entitledto has also caused some confusion - if you were on IB and failed the PCA (not the WCA) then you could claim IS while waiting for the result of that appeal. ESA claimants cannot do this. They must claim ESA.

[tommy456]

Those who have failed the ESA WCA Are unable to claim ESA until the MR decision has been made and the forms sent to the tribunal to register the appeal only then, once DWP have the notice will they restart the claim

 

Now if some one is too sick or their health conditions mean that they cannot jump through the JSA conditionality hoops expected of them why shouldn't they be able to claim IS ?

 

It sounds a reasonable thing for them to do , unless they are not about helping people and really about persecuting the sick ,

 

To add to this they DWP have been telling some of their JC staff not to allow EPS for those appealing the WCA decision

[antone]

Those who have failed the ESA WCA Are unable to claim ESA until the MR decision has been made and the forms sent to the tribunal to register the appeal only then, once DWP have the notice will they restart the claim

 

I know that. I said so in post #4, the post in which I also agreed with your general sentiment - it is bleeping ridiculous and it's a tactic that is clearly intended to make appeals more difficult.

 

Now if some one is too sick or their health conditions mean that they cannot jump through the JSA conditionality hoops expected of them why shouldn't they be able to claim IS ?

 

Because you can only claim IS if you are a carer or a lone parent, or if you're one of the tiny number of remaining IB claimants and have failed a PCA. Those are rules.

 

It sounds a reasonable thing for them to do , unless they are not about helping people and really about persecuting the sick ,

 

To add to this they DWP have been telling some of their JC staff not to allow EPS for those appealing the WCA decision

 

See, I'm trying not to be political about this stuff any more, but here's the thing: it's not about "persecuting the sick" as such. It's about right-wing populism. The sick are just conveniently defenceless - collateral damage, I guess. Blaming the DWP is a displacement activity: it's just a reflection of the government we elected.

[tommy456]

I know that. I said so in post #4, the post in which I also agreed with your general sentiment - it is bleeping ridiculous and it's a tactic that is clearly intended to make appeals more difficult.

 

 

 

Because you can only claim IS if you are a carer or a lone parent, or if you're one of the tiny number of remaining IB claimants and have failed a PCA. Those are rules.

 

 

 

See, I'm trying not to be political about this stuff any more, but here's the thing: it's not about "persecuting the sick" as such. It's about right-wing populism. The sick are just conveniently defenceless - collateral damage, I guess. Blaming the DWP is a displacement activity: it's just a reflection of the government we elected.

It was started by the previous labour left wing libtard party, It was they who screwed the British people over, So are no better imo PCA to WCA and IB to esa and the associated farces,

[rdm2006]

0k apparently it is not about ending the permitted work (although that was not made plain to me) it is about the voluntary work i do for the NHS. they believe that it should be a paid job so i have to get a letter from NHS stating that there is no such job and that if i didnt do it as a volunteer they have to confirm that they wouldnt employ some one.

 

at the moment most nhs trusts are short of money because its coming to the end of the fiscal year and the one i work for also has a recruitment ban on at the moment.

 

also for some reason jsa dont like that the nhs is not a charity??????

 

so they are making a notianal income reduction for time spent volunteering!!!!!

[antone]

Ah, right. Yeah, for better or worse, the DWP is quite careful about volunteer work if it's not for a charity (or other recognised Third Sector organisation) and they reckon that the organisation should be paying you instead. All I can suggest here is that you get the requested evidence from the NHS and then ask that your case be reviewed by a Decision Maker. This is really your only recourse. Personally, I think the rules on this are needlessly restrictive, but that's where we are at the moment.

[rdm2006]

yes already got the letter from the NHS and sent it in, you would think as the NHS is (in all but name) central government that it would be ok wouldn't you.

[mrpopperspenguins]

yes already got the letter from the NHS and sent it in, you would think as the NHS is (in all but name) central government that it would be ok wouldn't you.

 

Especially when it has also been deemed ok to send job seekers to work for free in large companies like Tesco and the likes.

At least the health service gives back to the community.

[antone]

yes already got the letter from the NHS and sent it in, you would think as the NHS is (in all but name) central government that it would be ok wouldn't you.

 

Yeah, I agree that it should be OK to volunteer with the NHS - in some roles at least. I mean, if they want more neurosurgeons it should pay for them, but there are plenty of roles where it shouldn't be a problem.

[flumps1976]

Just out of interest what job role were you doing on permitted work?

The only reason I ask is I used to in JCP (now in another area of DWP) so if it was permitted work in admin for example then yes that role is normally a paid position so could be treated as notional paid employment, if you were working in a "friends of the hospital" role for example in a cafeteria or taking items around a ward then those are treated as volunteer positions.

The reason this has to be considered is stop the likes of some big companies taking advantage of vulnerable people and also to stop claimants going and "volunteering" at their friends/families business for example.

[rdm2006]

it is an admin role but it is helping me back to work