Unable to identify the driver at the time of offence, what do we do ?

[stee41]

The rear of our car was flashed doing 35mph in a 30mph zone by a parked up mobile van,

there is only one photograph from the police as we requested photographic evidence,

but it is impossible to tell who was driving at the time as there is only a small part of the top of the drivers head visible, we have no clue as to who was driving, what do we do now?

 

Any advice would be great guys thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

This type of situation is regularly in the news.

It is a choice of whether someone takes responsibility for a speeding offence,

taking fine or speed awareness course if offered;

or the registered keeper getting done for not advising who the driver was,

which i think can come with a bigger fine/points.

 

Suggest you think who is most likely to have been driving on that date/time and location, to decide who you believe was driving to take the speeding fine.

 

The well known case of the MP and his wife sent to prison for perverting the course of justice was because they deliberately gave false information.

 

 

Providing you don't deliberately give false information, then there is no problem if you get the driver wrong in relation to a speeding offence.

[stee41]

Thanks for the quick response, I have been driving for 26 years and never been fined for speeding etc, my wife has 3 points, the annoying thing is we actually don't have a clue who was driving but I suppose I should take the points as she already has some ! oh well !

[BankFodder]

If you really don't know who it was then you might want to pause for a moment and do a little investigation as to the consequences on the cost of insurance.

[stee41]

We really don't know who was driving

the photograph supplied is not the best,

 

 

I'm not sure what you are telling me here apart from our insurance will probably rise!,

 

 

can you elaborate please?..

just to be clear we are honest people,

we don't have criminal records or try to play the system,

 

 

I am trying to find out where we stand legally or is it a case of just pay it and accept the outcome?

thanks

[Oddfellow]

Can I just ask how long ago this incident occurred?

 

 

Assuming it was quite recent,

unless it is on a piece of road used very frequently at all times of day and night by both you and your wife in the same vehicle,

I'm quite surprised that you can't even make a guess as to who was driving on that date and time.

 

 

The photos are not intended to identify who was driving, merely that the offence has been committed.

 

As you will both be insured on the same vehicle,

I doubt it would make much difference in the overall premium

, but if your wife still has 3pts current, she might be regarded as the higher risk ...

[Surfer01]

You may be offered a speed awareness test.

[stee41]

This occurred about 5 weeks ago,

We are both on this road regularly,

it is about 1 mile from our home and is a main connecting road everyone tends to use, it is very busy at times .

 

 

My wife is on dialysis so has little structure to her daily routine outside of hospital appointments,

I work shifts and was on my 4 days off at the time of offence.

[Oddfellow]

Is there not a defence where you genuinely cannot remember, and it could reasonably have been either of you?

They cannot deliberately prosecute the wrong party, so may not be able to do either of you!!

 

Surfer is right that a speed awareness course is likely for 35 in a 30,

but probably only for you (your wife having been done previously).

 

 

Bear in mind that you are still obliged to tell your insurer (IF they ask) that you have been on a speed awareness course, so it still might put your premium up a bit.

[renegadeimp]

Actually youre not obliged. Youre told in the awareness course it is non-declarable

[Surfer01]

Is there not a defence where you genuinely cannot remember, and it could reasonably have been either of you? They cannot deliberately prosecute the wrong party, so may not be able to do either of you!!

Surfer is right that a speed awareness course is likely for 35 in a 30, but probably only for you (your wife having been done previously). Bear in mind that you are still obliged to tell your insurer (IF they ask) that you have been on a speed awareness course, so it still might put your premium up a bit.

 

I have never seen the question on any insurance quote probably because you are not obliged to tell them.

 

I am sure that you only need to tell them of any convictions?

 

Hopefully the OP will get the speed awareness option in which case it all goes away and does not affect your insurance.

 

I have to admit that sometimes it is difficult to maintain 30mph and watch the road at the same time.

[Oddfellow]

Oh that's interesting Renegade.

 

 

Why do insurers tell you something that is untrue then?

Any excuse to invalidate your insurance or not pay out, by the sound of it!

 

Is this documented anywhere in legislation?

[Surfer01]

If there is no obligation, then I doubt if there is any legislation.

[Oddfellow]

On my policy schedule from Admiral, it says the following:-

"Have you or any driver been involved in any motoring offences in the last five years, including fixed penalties, convictions, driver awareness course or have any pending prosecution other than those listed?"

 

 

And "It is an offence under the Road Traffic Act to make a false statement or withhold any information to gain the issue of a Motor Insurance Certificate. Any incorrect information could lead to us declaring your policy void and/or declining any claim"

 

 

Thoughts?

[unclebulgaria67]

It is up to people to read/listen to what declaration questions are asked by Insurers and to provide accurate answers. Also if you incur any motoring penalty before renewal, you need to declare it, at the time of renewal.

 

I should imagine that a person with only a driver awareness course penalty, would see little change if any to their premium. In the event that someone forgot to disclose this, then providing it was the only penalty, then the policy should not be voided or cancelled, but Insurers might charge a backdated increase in premium. I personally see being sent on a driver awaremess course as a type of alternative penalty.

[renegadeimp]

My thoughts are admiral are thinking they are a rule unto themselves. The whole point of the awareness course is so you dont have to declare anything and as such you dont get penalised. Admiral have no way of checking as it gets removed from all systems once the course is complete. The only thing left on any system is the marker that says you have had a course in the last 3 years,

 

Admiral are just seeing it as a way to make money and will penalise the driver even when the rules say they shouldnt.

[Old Cogger]

as always peeps Do Not Insure With Admiral =

[Ethel Street]

. The whole point of the awareness course is so you dont have to declare anything and as such you dont get penalised. ,

 

Admiral are just seeing it as a way to make money and will penalise the driver even when the rules say they shouldnt.

 

That's not really correct renegadeimp.

 

 

The government when setting up speed awareness courses never said insurers couldn't take it into account and Admiral aren't breaking any rules by doing so.

 

 

If insurers want speed awareness courses to be disclosed they have to say so expressly,

but from previous post it appears that Admiral do make that clear.

 

 

If insurers only ask for any convictions then the advice given on the course is correct.

 

 

Speed awareness course is not a conviction and does not need to be disclosed.

But if insurer specifically asks if you have been on a speed awareness course then it does have to be disclosed.

[Aretnap]

The whole point of the awareness course is so you dont have to declare anything and as such you dont get penalised.

No it isn't. The point is that it's an alternative to prosecution or a fixed penalty, so you don't get a conviction and you don't get points on your licence. It has nothing to do with insurance, and the people who organise the courses have no power to decide what insurers can and can't ask about.

 

Admiral have no way of checking as it gets removed from all systems once the course is complete.

Well, whether or not you're required to disclose the information is a different question from how likely you would be to be caught if you didn't disclose it. It's true that as lies you could tell your insurer go, this is one of the ones you'd probably be more likely to get away with, as insurers don't (for now) have access to the record of who's done them. But you could still be in trouble if you post about your course on social media, or you get a quote with it declared, then remove it, or if you blurt out the truth without thinking when they ask you about it.

 

Admiral are just seeing it as a way to make money and will penalise the driver even when the rules say they shouldnt.

What rules say they shouldn't? Legally the starting point is that insurers can base their premiums on anything they like, unless there's a law which says they can't. The Equality Act prevents them loading premiums on the grounds of race, or sex. The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act prevents them from loading them due to (most) convictions which are more than 5 years old. What law do you think prevents them from loading premiums for attending a speed awareness course?

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

My thoughts are admiral are thinking they are a rule unto themselves. The whole point of the awareness course is so you dont have to declare anything and as such you dont get penalised. Admiral have no way of checking as it gets removed from all systems once the course is complete. The only thing left on any system is the marker that says you have had a course in the last 3 years,

 

Admiral are just seeing it as a way to make money and will penalise the driver even when the rules say they shouldnt.

 

So you say in one breath there is nothing left on the system to check, and then in the next breath you claim it is on the system for three years so can be checked. Which is it?

I hate misleading information.

 

I know it stays on the local authorities data base for 3 years as if you are caught in the same area speeding within that time frame, they wont offer the course.