VCS/BW Claimform - PCN St Marys Gate retail park in Sheffield overstay **WON+COSTS**

[pawilso]

Im preparing a defence for a similar case at the minute. Could you explain how i could use the signage argument in my defence pls. Thanks!

[pawilso]

Hi, so im preparing my defence against a VCS PCN for overstay in a car park which was free for an hour.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated as i've no experience in dealing with this.

 

I've so far picked up from what i've read on the net that i may be able to use

- authority to bring a case, only the landowner.

- unfair terms in consumer contract regulations

- the charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and is therefore an unenforceable penalty

 

 

Can anybody give me an idea if i can use the signage in my defence?

vcs signage 2-2.pdf

vcs signage 3.pdf

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

Could you tell us the information asked for on the forum stikky please? It will help the guys to advise you.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

 

HB

[dx100uk]

defence??

 

 

you mean appeal..

[pawilso]

Thanks..

 

So regards to the details.

.. i binned all initial correspondence up until i received a letter of claim from the courts

 

 

ii don't have the dates for the notice to keeper letter

and the answer to whether it mentions schedule 4 of POFA.

 

 

Does it make any difference that my vehicle is a lease hire vehicle and that i am not the registered keeper?

The particulars of claim form refers to me as the person responsible for the vehicle.

 

Regards Photo evidence there is nothing provided in the particulars of claim.

 

I have not appealed,

although i recently sent a letter threatening a counter claim for breach of DPA and for trespass for a second ticket brought under the same claim for a ticket issued for parking in my own bay at home in the hope they would leave me alone.

 

 

I am confident on my defence for my residential ticket but not so much on the retail park claim.

 

The parking company is Vehicle control services and the retail park is St Marys Gate retail park in Sheffield. They appear to operate under the BPA.

[honeybee13]

Could you answer the questions in the stikky link I provided in post #3 please?

 

HB

[pawilso]

Sorry i thought i'd covered that above. Ill post the template now.

 

Thanks

[pawilso]

PARKING CHARGE NOTICE

 

For windscreen tickets (NTD) please answer the following questions.

 

1 The date of infringement?N/A

 

2 Did you appeal to the parking company? N/A

If yes, has there been any response?

If no, have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? N/A

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) N/A

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] N/A

 

5 Who is the parking company? N/A

 

For tickets received through the post (Notice to Keeper) please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement

I don't have the exact details to hand. They're at home.Ii believe it to be June 2016

 

2 Date on the NTK

Don’t know as all correspondence up until the court letter binned

 

3 Date received Claim issued 18/11/16

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? Don’t know as all correspondence up to the court claim letter were filed in the bin

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Don’t know

 

6 Have you appealed? No

 

Have you had a response? No

 

7 Who is the parking company? vehicle control services

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure, please check here

 

BPA

[dx100uk]

ah you have a claim form then..

 

 

you need to fill this out please:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***Updated-Aug-2016***(1-Viewing)-nbsp

[pawilso]

Name of the Claimant ? Vehicle Control Services LTD

Date of issue – 18/11/16

Date to submit defence = Tuesday 20st December

 

What is the claim for –

 

1.The Claim against the Defendant is for breach of contract in respect of Parking Charge Notices.

At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver of the vehicle identified in the provided Particulars of Claim.

 

2.The Terms and Conditions to which the Defendant agreed to be bound by using the Car Park were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations. The Defendant clearly breached the Terms and Conditions of the said Car Park.

 

The accompanying letter with further details states:

 

1.The Claimant issued this claim against the Defendant for payment of outstanding parking charges arising from a vehicle for which the Defendant was responsible, being parked on private land in breach of the Terms and Conditions.

 

2.The Claim is for the sum of £341.00 being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant in respect of a Parking Charge Notices issued between the dates 4/6/16 and the 8/7/16 in the car park known as Jet Centro, Mary St and St Marys Gate Retail Park.

 

3.The Claimant provides, manages and enforces private parking and under the terms of its agreement with the landowner is permitted to enter directly into contract, in the Claimants own name, with any motorists using the car park and recover all monies owning from the issue of the Parking Charge Notices.

4.The terms of the Parking Charge Notice allowed the Defendant 28 days from the Issue Date to pay the Parking Charge Notice but the Defendant failed to do so. Despite demand having been made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.

5.The Claim also includes Statutory Interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum at a daily rate of £0.02

 

What is the value of the claim? £341

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor

or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ? VCS

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

[dx100uk]

you fill ed out the wrong link there

but ive done the info needed here for you..

 

 

note the correct day for defence filing by 4pm.

 

 

have you sent the sols [bw is it?] our CPR 31:14 for private parking?

and did you ack the claim at MCOL already?

[pawilso]

Thanks i've not done the CPR 31:14 yet. I'm not sure if it needs to go to BW Legal to be honest. I know i've had letters from them but have always ignored up till now. The particulars of claim form makes no mention of them. Would it not be sent to VCS directly?

 

I have sent the acknowledgment of claim already and i'm aware i have until 4pm on Wednesday.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

no Tuesday 33 days. claimform date is day one in the count.

 

box on left will tell you the sols who signed it

 

here is the CPR

 

you should have come here sooner rather than leaving thing so late.

 

to the solicitors

[Your address]

.

[Their address [solicitors]

.

[Date]

.

Dear Sir or Madam,

.

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

.

CPR 31.14 Request

.

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

.

1. proof of assignment from the landlord to create contracts and make claims in your own name.

.

2.proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007

the contract between [parking company name] and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and make claims in their own name,

Planning Permission for their signage under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007,

copies of the notice to driver,

notice to keeper and any other correspondence from [insert Claimant Name] or [insert Solicitors Name} to the defendant.

Give them 14 days to comply

.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are disclosed at your earliest convenience..

.

Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

.

Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request please confirm in your response.

.

Yours faithfully

.

TYPE YOUR NAME DO NOT SIGN IT

[pawilso]

Thanks

 

i know i should have got onto it earlier.

 

Sorry I'm struggling to see the solicitors details anywhere.

Should i be looking at the claim form?

There is a box under the claimants details on the top left of the claim form titled address for sending documents and payments (if different) That box is blank.

 

It is signed Simon Renshaw Smith (Claimant) The particulars of claim is also signed by Jake Burgess associate legal executive.

[dx100uk]

oh well not really an issue

send to VCS then.

 

 

twill be the std 2 line defence anyway ...

 

 

dx

[pawilso]

Ok cool ill get it sent off in the morning. What's the standard 2 line defence?

 

Thanks!

[dx100uk]

use our search CAG box of the top red toolbar

 

 

VCS/EXCEL/Claimform

[pawilso]

Is this what you mean regarding standard 2 line defence?

 

"no contract was offered by VCS by way of signage where you parked

so there cannot be a breach to cause a claim to be made". standard 2 line defence?

 

I've seen a number of templates for defences which seem quite extensive and I'm confused:???:

[ericsbrother]

you need to get down to wherever the car park was and photograph the signage there.

 

Start with a photo of the entrance to the land from the public highway,

make a note of the size of the sign

, its height above the road,

the size of the lettering where the text is in different fonts.

 

Then photogrpah the signs in the car park,

one picture will do unless the signs there have different wording and in that case a picture of each tyoe of sigtn.

Photogrpah the tikcet machine and any associated text.

 

When you have all of that put them up here so we can say if there is a contract offered by the signage to start with and also try and work out what the breach thay are claiming money for actually can exist.

 

Contact the council and find out if VCS has planning permission for their sigange (and machines if applicable) under the advertising hoardings regs of the Town and Country Planning Act 2007.

 

You have to be specific about this or the person at the council wont know what you are after.

The council may waffle about it being deemed consent and that is wrong, you need a straight yes or no answer to the consent issue.

 

It will be the planning dept that will know but you may well be speaking to a general customer services bod so dont be surprised if you find it difficult to get any sense.

 

Later on you will be writing to the court to ask that the claim be dismissed for not having any basis of claim as expressed in the claim form (lack of detail as to what they are claiming was doen and why they are suing you)

 

This is not guaranteed to beat their claim but it will mean that they will have to answer the points properly before you get to a court hearing.

 

Them failing to answer the CPR 31.14 will help you enormously here.

 

I would add to the CPR 31.14 a request for copy of all of the paperwork they claim to have sent so they can show that a keeper liability has been created ( they will have got this wrong so again they will struggle either way)

 

If you look at the sign you have posted up

it says that they are members of teh BPA- this is not true.

 

The rest of the small print at the bottom that shows who is offering you a contract is unreadable so hi res images of wording needed.

 

The sign itself refers to other signs so doesnt create a contract and you can take it or leave it with this

 

. If you are expected to put money in a meter the contract is only formed when you put the money in and get a ticket.

 

Up to that point the parking co doesnt have a leg to stand on.

 

Also, as it is 1 hr limit check with council planning dept whether there is any mention of a time limit for customer parking in either the planning application for St Mary's or the eventual consent.

 

Often it does state 2 or 3 hours free parking and these bandits cannot overrule planning law.

 

If that is the case then you will have an easier fight and also have a good reason for suing them.

 

I wouldnt do a counterclaim but win this and then write to them inviting them to pay you the damages amount of £250 and sue the if they dont

[pawilso]

Ok thank you i will get new photos done now. I will phone planning on Monday.

Is all this info needed for my defence i have to submit on Tuesday or do i need to apply for an extension to the court for submitting the defence as i haven't received the CRP 31:14 yet?

[ericsbrother]

No

, your defence will just be an outline defence so something like

"the claimant does not have the authority to enterin to contracts so there has been no breach of contract by the defendant"

 

You then back that up with all of your evidence when you have to exchange documents.

 

It is a CPR 31.14,

dont make the mistake of mistyping this when you mention it in communication with the court or VCS,

 

they will make a meal of it and you could lose becuse they dont have to obey somehting that doesnt exist!

[pawilso]

Ok thanks.

Ive no idea what I'm doing here and its stressing me out!

I really appreciate everyones help!!!

 

if i put the above as my defence for now,

i can expand on any arguments later on?

 

What i mean is if i don't mention something at this point,

is it possible to use it later as part of my defence?

 

For example the ticket they're trying to do me for parking at home in my own bay,

i believe the above statement applies that they don't have authority to form contracts because my tenancy agreement trumps their signs.

 

However i also have a photo where you can see my parking pass by the windscreen supports next to where the ticket was placed on my vehicle.

 

If i don't put that in my defence now could i still use that as part of my defence later?

[pawilso]

..

[ericsbrother]

the idea of a very open defence is that you can pad it out enormously later on as the info you require becomes availabel.

 

Go for detail now and you get bogged down by it later you wont be able to introduce new arguments.

 

rely on just a minor ticket evidence and miss the point about right to create a contract you will have to be absolutely correct on the pettifogging detail.

 

They may well decide to cut their losses before the hearing date,

they have a lot of work to do to win a claim and it costs them money to battle it out.

 

85% of people do not defend a claim so it is a numbers game.

Defend and you have already cost them money,

beat them in court and they lose a small fortune compared to people doing nothing

( their costs, sols fees, travel, your costs and travel , lost wages etc)

[pawilso]

Ok great so i could put the above sentence in as my defence now rather than wait till Tuesday.

 

Then contact planning Monday morning, get the Cpr31.14 details and go from there.

 

Are the photos ok? sorry they've come out sideways for some reason. The signs are between 6 to 6.5 ft from the ground.