Revamp plans for punishments dished out to rail fare dodgers DEC 2016

[dx100uk]

Plans to change the way fare dodging rail passengers are punished have been outlined by the Department for Transport (DfT).

 

 

Ministers want to make the process simpler following accusations that it is unfair and lacks consistency.

 

 

The proposals are in response to reports into the issue by independent watchdog Transport Focus (TF) which explained that, under current arrangements, train operators are "the victim, the investigators, the decision makers and the prosecutor".

 

 

It described this as a "powerful position" and declared that "the whole system requires an overhaul".

 

 

TF said the outlook for passengers mistakenly accused of fare dodging is "bleak", and warned that some passengers are being threatened with criminal sanctions despite no evidence they were attempting to commit fraud.

 

 

The proposals announced by the DfT include:

:: Clearer rules on deadlines for payments and appeals

:: Making appeals bodies independent of train operators and their owners

:: The creation of a third-stage independent appeals panel

:: Stronger DfT oversight of the appeals process through an annual audit of penalty fares data

 

 

 

 

https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/revamp-plans-punishments-dished-rail-161443357.html

[lookinforinfo]

Not before time. The way the Rail companies act with people who are genuinely not dodging fares is a disgrace. The Bye Laws are not fit for the purpose. Take a look at this article where travellers were fined despite having paid the correct fares.

 

The sooner there is an independent adjudicator the better. And sweeping the" guilty till proved innocent" has to go.

[andydd]

Interesting stuff, nothing new here really but its clearly taken the clout of TF to help get things moving, im sure nearly all of us here have been or aware of inconsistencies.

[firstclassx]

Not before time. The way the Rail companies act with people who are genuinely not dodging fares is a disgrace. The Bye Laws are not fit for the purpose. Take a look at this article where travellers were fined despite having paid the correct fares.

 

The sooner there is an independent adjudicator the better. And sweeping the" guilty till proved innocent" has to go.

 

Erm, nothing is changing to the Byelaws for starters, just Penalty Fares. The DfT also fails to mention that they are planning on increasing the Penalty Fare to £80, (50% reduction if paid promptly), but this is pretty irrelevant.

 

Secondly, for the Byelaws, the independent adjudicator is the legal system.

 

A rail company still has to prove the offence(s) to the usual criminal standards.

 

Because, all that will happen is that TOCs will stop issuing Penalty Fare notices (or not introduce them at all), and simply prosecute for Byelaw 18 instead. Northern Rail currently follows a similar model to this.

 

The DfT is completely inept and is allowed to get away with it because of people like the previous posters on here who don't consider the bigger picture.

 

If you insist on adding extra layers of "consumer protection", somebody has to pay for it - and the government requires that to be YOU.

 

The government won't repeal or drastically change the Byelaws, or the right to commence a private prosecution, because the economics of franchise bids will seriously weaken, which will generally reduce the financial return to the government, or require additional subsidy.

[andydd]

If you insist on adding extra layers of "consumer protection", somebody has to pay for it - and the government requires that to be YOU.

 

Rubbish ! No-one requires extra layers.

[Old-CodJA]

Erm, nothing is changing to the Byelaws for starters, just Penalty Fares. The DfT also fails to mention that they are planning on increasing the Penalty Fare to £80, (50% reduction if paid promptly), but this is pretty irrelevant.

 

Secondly, for the Byelaws, the independent adjudicator is the legal system.

 

A rail company still has to prove the offence(s) to the usual criminal standards.

 

Because, all that will happen is that TOCs will stop issuing Penalty Fare notices (or not introduce them at all), and simply prosecute for Byelaw 18 instead. Northern Rail currently follows a similar model to this.

 

 

This is absolutely correct and in addition to the likelihood of TOCs abandoning or not applying for Penalty Fare schemes, the Ministry for Justice are, perhaps inadvertently doing their bit to help drive this forward very much more quickly than might otherwise be the case.

 

They have already introduced the Single Justice Procedure in order to fast-track strict liability offences, making it very much easier for TOCs to prosecute Byelaw offences without even having to send a prosecutor to the Court to present the case.

 

It's already being used by TfL and for driving offences and is being pushed along by MoJ wishing to reduce estate costs and to speed these cases through the legal system.

 

Those who think that Transport Focus are helping travellers in this situation need a reality check in my opinion. It's a very old saying, but very true nonetheless, 'be careful what you wish for.'

[firstclassx]

If you insist on adding extra layers of "consumer protection", somebody has to pay for it - and the government requires that to be YOU.

 

Rubbish ! No-one requires extra layers.

 

But extra layers is what is being provided, because the DfT (government) believe that is what consumers want/need.

 

The current Penalty Fare arrangements and appeal body is staying, but simply an ADDITIONAL second tier appeal body, (which must be even more independent), sits above the first tier appeal arrangement, (which exists now).

 

So where exactly do you think the funding for the 2nd tier will come from? The government? The rail companies? Or, the passengers?

 

In the end, it won't really matter, as Penalty Fares will simply be bypassed and replaced by criminal prosecution instead, (which is far more costly for both government and passenger).

[Old-CodJA]

But extra layers is what is being provided, because the DfT (government) believe that is what consumers want/need.

 

The current Penalty Fare arrangements and appeal body is staying, but simply an ADDITIONAL second tier appeal body, (which must be even more independent), sits above the first tier appeal arrangement, (which exists now).

 

So where exactly do you think the funding for the 2nd tier will come from? The government? The rail companies? Or, the passengers?

 

In the end, it won't really matter, as Penalty Fares will simply be bypassed and replaced by criminal prosecution instead, (which is far more costly for both government and passenger).

 

 

A rumour (recently heard) suggests it seems likely that the DfT may want to put it under control of TF, but make the TOCs pay for it in some way

 

If so, you're right, many will simply abandon Penalty Fares and go straight to prosecution