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    • It's been a while since I had my head in this subject area, but Carey v HSBC was based on determining what the creditor could do to fulfill their obligations when issued with a s.77/78 request by the debtor. It determined that a reconstituted agreement would satisfy the request, so long as it was a true copy. It does not mean the agreement is enforceable if put before the courts. The debtor could, if provided with a recon, decide to accept it and carry on as normal, or dispute it (and potentially withhold payments until the dispute is resolved - if ever).   You are in the position of disputing the recon as being properly executed (amongst other things), which is now at the stage of being put before the court to resolve. Your protection is s.127(3) of the CCA 1974 (repealed in April 2006), which states:   s.127 (3)The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).   The above is what makes a recon unenforceable in your case - but, you need to make a positive assertion to that effect. Whilst DX says Carey is not applicable, I think it's relevant. It explains the role of a recon in law, and it also explains what a properly executed credit agreement looks like, to the extent that could be declared enforceable by an order of the court. It also confirms that the creditor can continue to attempt collection of the debt, but they have no means of recourse through the courts. I would certainly be quoting Carey in support of an assertion that the claimant's recon is unenforceable, and s.127(3) prevents the court from making an enforcement order where s.61(1) was not complied with - as appears to be the case. You will need to spell it out for the court within your statement though. If the claimant is relying on their recon as evidence of their compliance of s.61(1)a then they fail comprehensively due to... (list the points) ...look up what the required prescribed terms are and list them as not being present (the text cannot be read, so they cannot be said to exist on the agreement), and also that all the terms are not contained within the one document (Carey case goes into this in some detail).   You can also throw in your other points relating to the balance and reference numbers, default notice, etc. Pull their case apart with as many arguments as you can. Explain why certain things are needed for the claim to succeed and how the claimant's case does not stack up on those points. Force the claimant to defeat your arguments with appropriate proof/evidence. Cast doubt in every direction you can, but properly support your arguments.   Hope this helps.
    • Am I right in thinking your brother is the keeper of the vehicle, and so VCS are suing him - but you were driving on the day?  In your first post you wrote "I received a PCN" but did you really mean your brother did?   if so, you can prepare the paperwork in his name if you want, and a decent defence later on will probably lead Simple Simon of VCS to wet himself and give in (if you look through the forum, there are very recent examples of this).   However, in the unlikely event that VCS go all the way to court, it will be your brother appearing, so it'd be a good idea if he too started to learn the legal procedure and how to beat these fleecers.
    • 100's of no stopping threads here  just use our search top right   get reading up.    
    • plenty of our two - five line generic defences here already   but you are far too early yet to bother about defence.   your job now is to get reading up any/all PCN claimform threads here in this very same forum get upto speed.    
    • i cant find any ACDB T&C's here yet    
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teyob02

Credit card in singgapore since 2005

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I have recieve a letter DCA from singgapore and contacted the person who officer incharge.and they said the person is on leave.and the lady say can you give the ref.which I told to her the ref.

And emailed me thet I have an outstanding amount of SGD $24,327.44 on my credit card with ending accnt #.

 

And email them back..and asked

 

Why you think I own the debt?

And asked Verification and documentation?

 

And they said thet are in the midst of retreving the document.

After 2weeks last november I recieve a email and say.the attachedment is encryted I need to put my BOB to open the file.so did it.from march 2005 to feb.2011 closing balance SG 14,973.80 and until to october 2016 is till the same amount..

 

I recieve email from them last 25 november and said..

please be informed it is my liability to settle this outstanding even its over due for years.We could also work out a good discount offer to close this account if you wish to settle this acoount..

 

My question is

How much do I own to them bec.they said SG 24,327.44 and why the statement from original creditor SG14,973?

 

And if I make and offer Full and final settlement how about dont accept they reset the statute barred?..bec. I email them the debt is statute barred.

 

help would be appreciated.

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Hi and welcome to CAG

 

I have moved your thread to our overseas forum as it is to do with an alleged overseas debt.

 

I know very little about overseas issues. What I would do is check the Statute Barring Laws for Singapore. I do recollect that a lot of Singapore laws were based (sometimes loosely) on UK law

 

If it turns out that the debt IS due and enforceable and you offer a F&F, there are procedures in place to assist in ensuring no further debt is transferred.


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QUOTE=silverfox1961;4975844]Hi and welcome to CAG

 

I have moved your thread to our overseas forum as it is to do with an alleged overseas debt.

 

I know very little about overseas issues. What I would do is check the Statute Barring Laws for Singapore. I do recollect that a lot of Singapore laws were based (sometimes loosely) on UK law

 

If it turns out that the debt IS due and enforceable and you offer a F&F, there are procedures in place to assist in ensuring no further debt is transferred.

 

Thank you very much..

 

I check singgapore credit debt limitation is 6yrs I check last month thats why my original creditor from march 2005 to feb.2011 and they stop the interest the last statement is o interest until oct.2016 is they sam amount..please correct me if I wrong.thanks a lot

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I have also checked and it is six years. The cause of action starts from when payments are missed so, for instance, You stopped paying the debt in, say, July 2010 then it would be SB by now.

 

I haven't checked to see if Singapore has any reciprocal debt collection agreements with the UK (assuming you are now in the UK)


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Are you now a resident of the UK ?

 

If so, then foreign debts including those from Singapore can be enforced in a UK court, if your Singapore credit card agreement allow a foreign court to deal with the debt. But this does not mean you would ever be issued with a UK court claim, if you did not pay. Not many foreign debts are subject to UK court actions, because a UK Solicitor might wish to get too involved if the debtor could not pay within a short timescale.

 

You should ask for a copy of your credit card terms and conditions to check whether a UK court can become involved. You could also ask for a copy of your signed agreement that you agreed to the terms/conditions of the card.

 

In regard to statute barring, i think it is similar to UK i.e 6 years fron last date of payment or acknowledgement.


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Are you now a resident of the UK ?

 

If so, then foreign debts including those from Singapore can be enforced in a UK court, if your Singapore credit card agreement allow a foreign court to deal with the debt. But this does not mean you would ever be issued with a UK court claim, if you did not pay. Not many foreign debts are subject to UK court actions, because a UK Solicitor might wish to get too involved if the debtor could not pay within a short timescale.

 

You should ask for a copy of your credit card terms and conditions to check whether a UK court can become involved. You could also ask for a copy of your signed agreement that you agreed to the terms/conditions of the card.

 

In regard to statute barring, i think it is similar to UK i.e 6 years fron last date of payment or acknowledgement.

 

Yes I am uk residence.

 

Can I make f&f seattlement to them?

How about if they not accept my offer?

Is their any possible that reset the statute barred.thats I am worried about..

 

help would be appreciated.

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If 6 years have already passed and you make the offer, this does not reset any clock. If it is within 6 years then any offer will likely be seen as admission of the debt.

 

I can't see them doing much in the next two months (Feb 2017)

 

Details would help.

 

When did you make the last payment?

Were you aware of any Default Notice (if such is issued over there)

Can you access the terms and conditions of the account at the time?

Do you know if any charges have been added. Dependant on the law over there, they may be unlawful.

 

Whatever you do from now on, head your emails/letters with 'I acknowledge no debt to you nor any company you claim to represent'

 

Don't speak to them on the phone.


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pers i'd be ignoring them.

theres bugger and all they can do to you in this country

 

 

the debt has obviously been sold on too as you say its a dca emailing you.

 

 

they are not bailiffs and have no legal powers whatsoever to do anything to you.

 

 

all they want is to mug you and line their pockets to fund the unlawful harassment of more people like yourself with foreign debts that know no better than to blindly cough up.

 

 

the fact that they are offering you a discount too speaks volumes.


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If 6 years have already passed and you make the offer, this does not reset any clock. If it is within 6 years then any offer will likely be seen as admission of the debt.

 

I can't see them doing much in the next two months (Feb 2017)

 

Details would help.

 

When did you make the last payment?

Were you aware of any Default Notice (if such is issued over there)

Can you access the terms and conditions of the account at the time?

Do you know if any charges have been added. Dependant on the law over there, they may be unlawful.

 

Whatever you do from now on, head your emails/letters with 'I acknowledge no debt to you nor any company you claim to represent'

 

Don't speak to them on the phone.

 

Hi silverfox1961

 

Sorry for the late reply..

 

The last payment feb.25,2005 bec.they emailed the statement of account.

 

I dont know bec I leaf singgapore since 2005 of june.

cant access the term and condition of the account.and I confuse bec.

 

 

the DCA in singgapore they I got outstanding sg24,000 and they email the statement from original creditor since march 2005 to feb 2011

they have a charge and the total sg14,973 and the rest is zero charge till october 2016.

 

Why DCA asked me to pay sg24,000,?

And make offer a good discount that they say on last email.

 

Thank you very much I appriacite any help

Edited by teyob02

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pers i'd be ignoring them.

theres bugger and all they can do to you in this country

 

the debt has obviously been sold on too as you say its a dca emailing you.

 

they are not bailiffs and have no legal powers whatsoever to do anything to you.

 

all they want is to mug you and line their pockets to fund the unlawful harassment of more people like yourself with foreign debts that know no better than to blindly cough up.

 

the fact that they are offering you a discount too speaks volumes.

 

Hi dx100uk.

 

Thank you for your advise.

If I ignore them I think they know add. Work place bec.

the ist letter I receive is in my work place and its computer generated letter.

and contacted them once by phone

 

 

the officer in charge its on leave and the person who receive the call its the one to dail with it..

 

Any help apraicited..thank you

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Hi silverfox1961

 

Sorry for the late reply..

 

The last payment feb.25,2005 bec.they emailed the statement of account.

 

I dont know bec I leaf singgapore since 2005 of june.cant access the term and condition of the account.and I confuse bec.the DCA in singgapore they I got outstanding sg24,000 and they email the statement from original creditor since march 2005 to feb 2011 they have a charge and the total sg14,973 and the rest is zero charge till october 2016.

 

Why DCA asked me to pay sg24,000,?

And make offer a good discount that they say on last email.

 

Thank you very much I appriacite any help

 

So you can safely ignore them and do nothing. The debt is statute barred and they must realise that they have no chance.

 

They are just trying to fish for a response and to then hassle you,


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Hi silverfox1961

 

Sorry for the late reply..

 

The last payment feb.25,2005 bec.they emailed the statement of account.

 

I dont know bec I leaf singgapore since 2005 of june.cant access the term and condition of the account.and I confuse bec.the DCA in singgapore they I got outstanding sg24,000 and they email the statement from original creditor since march 2005 to feb 2011 they have a charge and the total sg14,973 and the rest is zero charge till october 2016.

 

Why DCA asked me to pay sg24,000,?

And make offer a good discount that they say on last email.

 

Thank you very much I appriacite any help

 

Can I make f&f seattlement to them?

How about if they not accept my offer?

Is their any possible that reset the statute barred.thats I am worried about..

 

help would be appreciated

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Already answered. DO NOTHING. This debt is a dead duck.


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Already answered. DO NOTHING. This debt is a dead duck.

 

Thank you again for your advice..

Unclebulgaria67

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officer in charge...at a DCA what jokers

please ignore them

 

 

you almost got mugged blind

 

 

dx


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officer in charge...at a DCA what jokers

please ignore them

 

 

you almost got mugged blind

 

 

dx

 

Thanks again dx100uk

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Current exchange rate = £1 = SGD 1.8

 

I have one question. How have they added £5,000 or more to the account.

 

Surely this can't be DCA Fees and interest

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and the rest.

 

 

its worthy to note that atleast 3 of the big players in the UK DCA debt buyers market

have recently bought overseas DCA's hold some £45M worth of non UK debt.

 

 

most are EU cards.

 

 

one report indicated that each debt had had at least 45% added to the known outstanding balance

and that several debtors had already seen first chase letters from them in the UK claiming this was fees for EU transfer to the uk debt collectors.

 

 

many muppets will sadly pay it!


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Current exchange rate = £1 = SGD 1.8

 

I have one question. How have they added £5,000 or more to the account.

 

Surely this can't be DCA Fees and interest

 

Hi queens_king

 

Thats why I comfuse as will,bec the statement of original creditor since march 2005 to feb 2011 is sg14,000 plus the charge and they stop charging from feb. 2011 to oct.2016 and the amount still same..and now the DCA I got outstanding of sg24,000.I been passle us will.

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and the rest.

 

 

its worthy to note that atleast 3 of the big players in the UK DCA debt buyers market

have recently bought overseas DCA's hold some £45M worth of non UK debt.

 

 

most are EU cards.

 

 

one report indicated that each debt had had at least 45% added to the known outstanding balance

and that several debtors had already seen first chase letters from them in the UK claiming this was fees for EU transfer to the uk debt collectors.

 

 

many muppets will sadly pay it!

 

Hi dx100uk

 

Thanks for info..

 

It is possible that my debt has been sold to DCA uk even its statute barred?

 

For more than 6+yrs no payment or any acceptance of my debt.

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This is the last email I recieve last week and didnt reply yet until now

 

Any help appriatiated.thank you

 

DCA from singgapore

 

Please be informed it is your liability to settle this outstanding even it’s over due for years.

 

We could also work out a good discount offer to close this account if you wish to settle this account. Please contact us for further discuss or you may reply to this email

 

 

 

Since you have awared of this outstanding debt and the weak payment record to this account. Your feedback to this case has been update to our client. Your credit record will remain as unpaid and Singapore Credit Bureau report till it is paid . This may affect your current and future employment. Thus we sincerely hope you do consider to settle with us ASAP.

 

 

 

Please treat this as urgent, your immediate response to this matter is highly appreciated

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and the rest.

 

 

its worthy to note that atleast 3 of the big players in the UK DCA debt buyers market

have recently bought overseas DCA's hold some £45M worth of non UK debt.

 

 

most are EU cards.

 

 

one report indicated that each debt had had at least 45% added to the known outstanding balance

and that several debtors had already seen first chase letters from them in the UK claiming this was fees for EU transfer to the uk debt collectors.

 

 

many muppets will sadly pay it!

 

This is the last email last week I recieve I didnt reply yet.

 

Please advice what to do?

 

Please be informed it is your liability to settle this outstanding even it’s over due for years.

 

We could also work out a good discount offer to close this account if you wish to settle this account. Please contact us for further discuss or you may reply to this email

 

 

 

Since you have awared of this outstanding debt and the weak payment record to this account. Your feedback to this case has been update to our client. Your credit record will remain as unpaid and Singapore Credit Bureau report till it is paid . This may affect your current and future employment. Thus we sincerely hope you do consider to settle with us ASAP.

 

 

 

Please treat this as urgent, your immediate response to this matter is highly appreciated

Edited by teyob02

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This is the last email last week I recieve I didnt reply yet.

 

Please advice what to do?

 

Please be informed it is your liability to settle this outstanding even it’s over due for years.

 

We could also work out a good discount offer to close this account if you wish to settle this account. Please contact us for further discuss or you may reply to this email

 

 

 

Since you have awared of this outstanding debt and the weak payment record to this account. Your feedback to this case has been update to our client. Your credit record will remain as unpaid and Singapore Credit Bureau report till it is paid . This may affect your current and future employment. Thus we sincerely hope you do consider to settle with us ASAP.

 

 

 

Please treat this as urgent, your immediate response to this matter is highly appreciated

 

 

Not sure why you are seeking further reassurance on this.

 

If you have not paid anything for more than 6 years, the debt is subject to limitations laws, so you don't have to do anything. It won't be recorded on any records as a black mark against you on any records anywhere. It should have zero affect on you.

 

What you will find is that a DCA will try to say anything. All they are interested is making money from people who are ignorant.


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Not sure why you are seeking further reassurance on this.

 

If you have not paid anything for more than 6 years, the debt is subject to limitations laws, so you don't have to do anything. It won't be recorded on any records as a black mark against you on any records anywhere. It should have zero affect on you.

 

What you will find is that a DCA will try to say anything. All they are interested is making money from people who are ignorant.

 

But what I worried is that they know my work address bec. The 1st letter that I recieve address to my work and its computer generated letter and no sign.

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But what I worried is that they know my work address bec. The 1st letter that I recieve address to my work and its computer generated letter and no sign.

 

Paying them money that is not due, will not make them go away. It may cause you more embarrasment. As soon as you paid them anything, they would think they have found an ignorant person to take advantage of. You will get more letters to your work place.

 

Just ignore them and they will stop contacting you. Tell your colleagues that the letters are just part of an internet sc*m, trying to obtain money that is not due.


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