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    • Hi I appealed online on 28/12/19. I have attached my submission as a further PDF   Thanks
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    • Just a general comment - as I know nothing about legal procedures...   I agree with what I think BankFodder is suggesting - it really ought to be a straightforward question of a breach of contract.  You've paid for a service and the other party (or their sub-contractor) has failed to perform that service - safe delivery to the addressee.  It seems daft to me that the risk of non-delivery gets passed back to you because you've not paid for insurance against their failure to perform their responsibilities.  It's an inherently unfair* business model that has crept up by stealth, assisted by the growth of internet shopping.  Of course, a court may not agree...   I also agree with BF that you should be able to do some research yourself, and you should see this as an opportunity for self-directed learning as well as self-help!  You can always check back with BF, Andyorch and dx100uk that your understanding is correct.  You might get some ideas for final year dissertation - it's a bit of an academic problem with real-life commercial implications.   *Of course, in the absence of this business model, courier fees would go up, but I would argue that's a fairer way of spreading the risk of loss/damage etc   (PS - I was a law student a looooooooong time ago.  In your position I'd have tried my tutors as a sounding board as well.  I also thought SBU had it's own law clinic - although the advice is likely to be quite basic unless somebody sees this as an "interesting" problem)
    • Thanks EB, I will catchup on the mentioned thread as I had used it before the hearing.   I went for hearing. Rep approached mentioning settlement, talking about them having a strong case to which I pointed out their bundle which they were going through that it says Excel here so aren't you here for the wrong company.   They mentioned sister companies, I mentioned companies house and then I said let's leave it to the judge they went away from me. The rep went into a room presumably to call their firm Elms Legal I think probably for advice.   We ended up being the last hearing before lunch, as the Usher called out our names and said the judge will call you in shortly. The rep came over saying something like I'm surprised you're going in without submitting a WS!   I said it has been served they said well I haven't seen it, when was it sent, do you have copies as I could get the Usher to copy, I said I may,  rep - you either do or you don't Take care of yourself.I said well we will have to put this in front of the judge now.   Inside the rep said to the judge about my WS not being served and they asked me on multiple occasions for the WS I said 5 minutes before coming in is not multiple occasions. The judge said they had my WS along with an index of papers I had sent in that they have been looking at.   The rep started with their page contract and terms and conditions picture in their bundle saying they have a valid contract and that in the Tariff /T&C picture it mentioned about entering into a contract with VCS.   The judge asked me what I made of that I argued where is the contract giving them, a 3rd party, authority from Excel to issue proceedings in their own rights? The judge said to the rep, Defendant not accepting this so we are not getting anywhere rep raised WS issue again saying they asked on multiple occasions, again I repeated what 5 minutes before coming in. I said I had Cert of Posting.   The rep mentioned about being given a few minutes to read it and I said I had a copy but the judge was saying it's near lunch and it will take too much time even though the rep said there is still 35 minutes left.   I said the WS was served see COP but the judge said they may have lost it etc so to send it again. I said the rep could have a copy now but the rep was like I couldn't take pictures of it and send back to my client as they only get things from them via email.   I said you could post it but the judge said the rep is saying they can't use post for whatever reason so if I could send it again. Case adjourned.   The rep asked about costs and judge said reserved and I asked about my loss of earnings and that I would have to get leave booked again. Reserved seemed to be the answer but the judge was apologising about being the last morning hearing and said he would make sure we were first next time and the rep asked for an hour instead of 45 minutes so judge asked me and I said ok.   The rep asked about the reason for adjourning to give to their client as they would have had to pay them to attend. Outside at the ushers desk the rep had spoken to the Usher to make a copy from mine (didn't accept it Infront of the judge) and also asked to see the COP and I obliged saying I deem this served now but the rep said you have an order/instruction from the judge to send to VCS. I regret giving them a copy thinking I should have said you will have it once I send it again to VCS. Whilst inside, the judge said as the hearing never started it wouldn't be infront of him again and also the rep said it would probably be someone else as she also wasn't the person named in their WS. As per POFA my understanding is one cannot be made to pay costs more than in the NTK. As it will now be a 2nd hearing, 2 days off work for me and 2 representations for them, will there be double AL for me to claim if I win or double expenses if they win?   There was supposed to  be 2 cases heard together but I only had WS for this one am I supposed to have asked for another WS? Will they be claiming the fee/expenses for both cases with one hearing yet I could only claim for the 2 days AL?   What do you make of what happened at the hearing from their rep, maybe they realised it won't be straightforward especially when it was a judge they were not aware of perhaps they conferred with their team about ways to handle aswell as ways to escape? Thanks      
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Hi all.

 

I have today received a Notice of Enforcement from Rossendales, it is relating to a council tax liability order from 2011.

 

I had made an arrangement with the local council to pay back monthly which was quite a low amount as I was on JSA. rather stupidly we never set up a direct debit and paid via online or payment card as and when we had the money by the due date.

 

Unfortunately after paying regularly for a couple of years we missed a few payments ( I thought the wife was paying it she thought I was!)

 

I called the council and tried to get the plan back on track and they would only accept a one off payment for the arrears £80 and then carry on the original plan at £20 per month.

 

To my absolute horror when I checked my notes from the call after receiving this notice today, the £80 payment was due on the 15th of September, I had it in my mind that that it was due 15th of October!

 

The enforcement notice is demanding full payment or agreement of a payment arrangement for £1466.20 no later than 23:59 on the 15th of October!

 

Does anyone know if these people will actually listen to my circumstances and agree a reasonable repayment plan as I cannot pay the full amount and in all honesty could not afford more than probably £30 - 40 per month

 

. I'm not going to go fully into figures but my monthly salary is just under £1200 my wife works part time and my Rent alone is £700pm (Due to rise soon) my current council tax £139pm without Gas and Electric etc etc plus also the monthly living costs of 3 of us Eating etc!

 

I know I'm not the only one with problems but any advice anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated

 

, I actually feel physically sick after opening the letter and after surfing around a bit and reading things like the Bailiffs will take your car!

 

I am very worried! (BTW the car was paid for by my mother in law as we were without one for 2 years, but it is in my wife's name and is probably only worth about £300) I am not completely naive regarding Baliffs and know not to let them in etc

 

Thanks in advance

 

Simon

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I am thinking of emailing them, does this seem acceptable?.........

 

Dear Sirs

 

I have received today a Notice of enforcement regarding a liability order for outstanding council tax owed to Uttlesford District Council.

I had agreed to reinstate a payment plan after missing a couple of payments to them and agreed a payment to them on the 15th of October however it transpires that it should of been the 15th of September and they have now passed the account to yourselves.

 

I cannot pay the outstanding balance of £1466.20 (which includes your Compliance stage fee) in full as I am on a very limited budget and will have to pay by monthly instalments. Please advise me of how I can set up a payment arrangement with yourselves. Do you provide an Income vs Outgoings document that I can complete to prove that any offer I make is reasonable? Please do not offer the opportunity for one of your officers attend my premises to discuss the matter as A) I cannot afford the existing balance let alone an added fee of £235 and B) I do understand the implications to myself once your agent has been ‘let in’ and I will not be willing to do so.

 

 

Please reply via this email address as soon as possible.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

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It has been a VERY busy day today so if you are OK to wait until the morning (or maybe earlier) I will make some suggested changes.

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Thank you 'Bailiff Advice' that would be very much appreciated :) I am not disputing that I owe the money, I am just not prepared to be bullied into an agreement that I cannot afford.

My worst nightmare is they come and clamp the car as it would mean I couldn't get to work (without paying £30 per week in bus fare!)

 

I may not be able to reply until late tomorrow as I work 12 hours shifts starting at 4am tomorrow :(

 

Speak Soon

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Given its low value the car is not a problem.

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Hi Any progress on those suggested changes? :)

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Hi Any progress on those suggested changes? :)

 

Will post up late today.

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I am thinking of emailing them, does this seem acceptable?.........

 

Dear Sirs

 

I have received today a Notice of enforcement regarding a liability order for outstanding council tax owed to Uttlesford District Council.

I had agreed to reinstate a payment plan after missing a couple of payments to them and agreed a payment to them on the 15th of October however it transpires that it should of been the 15th of September and they have now passed the account to yourselves.

 

I cannot pay the outstanding balance of £1466.20 (which includes your Compliance stage fee) in full as I am on a very limited budget and will have to pay by monthly instalments. Please advise me of how I can set up a payment arrangement with yourselves. Do you provide an Income vs Outgoings document that I can complete to prove that any offer I make is reasonable? Please do not offer the opportunity for one of your officers attend my premises to discuss the matter as A) I cannot afford the existing balance let alone an added fee of £235 and B) I do understand the implications to myself once your agent has been ‘let in’ and I will not be willing to do so.

 

 

Please reply via this email address as soon as possible.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

 

It would help if you provide a bit more detail. The following draft letter could assist (change as necessary).

 

 

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

Re: Reference number: xxx

 

I am writing with regards to a Notice of Enforcement that I received from your company on 2nd October in relation to arrears of council tax from 2011 owed to Uttlesford Council.

 

Background:

 

Following the Liability Order in 2011, I contacted the council and explained that I was out of work and in receipt of Job Seekers Allowance. The council agreed to accept small monthly payments of £20 per month towards the debt. After paying regularly for the past couple of years we unfortunately defaulted. I contacted the council in xxx and they agreed to reinstate the previous payment arrangement (of £20 per month) on condition that I pay the amount of arrears (of £80) by 15th September. I genuinely believed in my mind that payment of this amount was due on 15th October (instead of 15th September) and I was shocked to discover the error when reading back on my notes of the conversation after receiving the Notice of Enforcement from your company requesting the full balance of £1,466.20.

 

Financial position:

 

I am married and have one child aged xx. The property that we live in is rented. I work full time and my monthly take home salary is just under £1,200 per month. My wife works part and her take home salary is £xxx. In addition we receive monthly child benefit of £x.

 

The vast majority of our income goes towards our monthly rent of £700 and our council tax of £136 per month. The balance only just meets the everyday costs of electricity/gas/food/clothing and motoring costs.

 

Taking our income and expenditure into consideration, the maximum that we can afford to pay towards our arrears is £30 per month. I am unable to borrow any money from family or friend to reduce the debt. The goods in our property are normal everyday items worth very little the vast majority of which are considered exempt under the new regulations. We have a very old motor vehicle which is valued at approx £300 and which is vital to me for my employment.

 

I would be grateful if consideration can be given to accepting the above payment proposal. If you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Yours faithfully.

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Hi

Thanks so much for that. do you think this will be ok to email, or should it be sent in the post recorded delivery?

 

Obviously I'm thinking the email route would be quicker and I'll know where we stand

 

Once again thanks for your advice

 

Simon

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Hi

Do you think this will be ok to email, or should it be sent in the post recorded delivery?

 

Obviously I'm thinking the email route would be quicker and I'll know where we stand

 

Once again thanks for your advice

 

Simon

 

Both

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Email sent! Fingers crossed

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Hi

 

I have today recieved a reply via email it is as follows:-

 

Thank you for your email,

We note the reply email address potentially belongs to a third party and as such we are unable to discuss the case via a third party without a signed letter of authority from the named liable party.

Please provide the necessary letter of authority in order for us to assist or ask the named liable party to contact us on 0844 701 3980 to discuss the matter further.

A letter has been posted out to the named.

Yours Sincerely,

........ Not sure how they can determine that the email is a third party or not! It's not b.t.w it is my own personal email address.

In other words I'm guessing they are trying to get me to phone so they can bully me in person :(, Do you think I should call?

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Only ever call if you can record the conversation.


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Hi all

 

Update.........

 

After a bit of backward and forward of emails I was eventually emailed a financial statement paperwork and all action was held until today 21st October.

I filled out and emailed everything yesterday and asked them to confirm that all was well (which they didn't) I have today had a reply which includes the following .......

 

We regret that your offer of repayment is not acceptable, due to your contribution to non-priority spending and disposable income available.

 

Council Tax is a priority debt which takes preference over ALL non essential spending and unsecured creditors. Your financial statement lists the following non priority spending: £50.00 per month for TV/Phone/Broadband, £50.00 per month for Clothing.

 

Therefore the minimum amount we must request is £100.00 every 31 days.

 

Your first payment is due by 31st October 2014.

 

How can it be non essential to allow for clothing for a family of three in a monthly budget ? ( I have a 12 year old who unfortunately is growing at a rate of Knotts) and I got that figure from National debtlines monthly suggested living expenses! and regarding the Phone/ TV/ broadband - I'm in a contract?! and I was including all mobiles in that figure as well!

 

I don't know what to do I certainly don't have £100 per month spare!

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

 

Thanks

 

Simon

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The letter confirms that they will accept a payment proposal which is at least a step in the right direction and you now have until 31st October to make the first payment. You need to ensure that you use this time to email Rossendales to outline that the figures for the phone charges cannot be reduced due to the contracts and that the figure of £50 per month for clothing is not only correct but is within the guideline figures as provided by National Debtline.

 

All creditors rely upon 'trigger figures' which are updated yearly. Naturally I have copies and I can assure you that the figure given by you are perfectly acceptable.

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Thank you

 

I will draft an email in response and if you don't mind could I ask you to pass an eye over it?

 

I am also considering ringing my council and asking them if they will recall the debt as the Bailiffs are being unreasonable? if I get no joy maybe ask them to provide me with the details of my local councillor as a last resort and maybe bug him for advice ?

 

As I've said before I'm not disputing the debt and am currently paying my current council tax on time every month, I just messed up (still kicking myself) but now have the stress of the wolves at the door. My wife is currently on tablets from the GP for stress and anxiety, so I am trying to do this as peacefully as possible!

 

Will be in touch soon

 

Thanks

 

Simon

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Hi Sipea71

 

I would second BA's advice that those clothing/telecoms costs appear perfectly reasonable in this context. Rossendales appear to be implying that you should budget for £0 across these two areas, which is nonsensical.

 

I would advise you to make payment of the amount you deem affordable by the above deadline, whether Rossendales have formally accepted it or not by then. Paying by a more "impersonal" method, such as via their website, might be best as it avoids you getting sucked into further debates about what is or isn't acceptable expenditure.

 

Dennis

@natdebtline


For Free, Confidential and Independent advice: 0808 808 4000

Monday - Friday 9am to 9pm // Saturday 9.30am to 1pm // 24-hour voicemail. Please leave a message to request an information pack. http://www.nationaldebtline.org // http://www.mymoneysteps.org

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Would I be right in saying in the email that the figures stated in my financial statement fall well within trigger figures suggested by the Common Financial Statement that helps identify that levels of monthly expenditure are deemed reasonable ?

 

Or am I trying to understand something that I don't? lol!

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Thanks Dennis just seen your post

 

would be very difficult to pay on-line with no broadband ;)

Seriously though thanks for the advice I'll compose my email and post it up before it's sent

 

Thanks

 

Simon

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Could be the cynic in me but another reason why this could be is that it may then give them an excuse to send someone out so the cost to you is increased. We have seen a few such things of late.


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I had that thought in the back of my mind as well, I will mention it in my email that I want to avoid any such action that will increase in the debt!

 

I have drafted this email, let me know what you think please.

I am about to go out for about an hour so will be unable to reply to any comments.

 

Thanks

 

Simon

 

 

Thank you for your email.

 

 

I do not understand why you consider my offer unacceptable due to the payments.

 

 

The figures stated in my financial statement fall well within ‘trigger figures’ suggested by the Common Financial Statement that helps identify that levels of monthly expenditure are deemed reasonable.

 

 

If this is not the case, could you please explain to me why Rossendales would consider £50 per month not a reasonable allowance for two adults and one 12 year old child for clothing on a monthly basis.

 

 

I would also like to inform you that the figure for Telecoms included the entire allowance for the whole family, which includes mobile phones as well, all of which I am contractually obliged to pay for the next 14 months at least and are not an expenditure I can just stop paying. The figures for the phone charges cannot be reduced due to the contracts.

 

 

Can you actually confirm to me that Rossendales are implying that I should budget for £0 across these two areas?

 

 

With this in mind however I am willing to try and budget elsewhere, and would like to revise my original offer of £30 per month to £50.

 

 

I am aware that Rossendales next stage of action is to send a Bailiff to my address and am also aware of the additional cost involved if they do, and would like to avoid any further action as I cannot allow the debt to increase. I have stated previously I am unable to borrow any money from family or friends to reduce the debt. The goods in our property are normal everyday items worth very little the vast majority of which are considered exempt under the new regulations.

 

 

I would be grateful if you would give my revised offer your consideration.

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Sorry....an extremely busy day today indeed !!! Your email looks very good but there are a couple of small points which I will correct later today.

 

PS: Increasing the monthly payment proposal to £50 from the previous figure of £30 should certainly help.

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Thanks BA

 

I will hold off sending until you've clarified the points.

Thank you so much for your advice it is very much appreciated.

 

Look forward to hearing from you

 

Simon

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Hi

 

Any progress with the corrections ?

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Hi All

 

I have drafted this email, let me know what you think please.

I am about to go out for about an hour so will be unable to reply to any comments.

 

Thanks

 

Simon

 

 

Thank you for your email.

 

 

I do not understand why you consider my offer unacceptable due to the payments.

 

 

The figures stated in my financial statement fall well within ‘trigger figures’ suggested by the Common Financial Statement that helps identify that levels of monthly expenditure are deemed reasonable.

 

 

If this is not the case, could you please explain to me why Rossendales would consider £50 per month not a reasonable allowance for two adults and one 12 year old child for clothing on a monthly basis.

 

 

I would also like to inform you that the figure for Telecoms included the entire allowance for the whole family, which includes mobile phones as well, all of which I am contractually obliged to pay for the next 14 months at least and are not an expenditure I can just stop paying. The figures for the phone charges cannot be reduced due to the contracts.

 

 

Can you actually confirm to me that Rossendales are implying that I should budget for £0 across these two areas?

 

 

With this in mind however I am willing to try and budget elsewhere, and would like to revise my original offer of £30 per month to £50.

 

 

I am aware that Rossendales next stage of action is to send a Bailiff to my address and am also aware of the additional cost involved if they do, and would like to avoid any further action as I cannot allow the debt to increase. I have stated previously I am unable to borrow any money from family or friends to reduce the debt. The goods in our property are normal everyday items worth very little the vast majority of which are considered exempt under the new regulations.

 

 

I would be grateful if you would give my revised offer your consideration.

 

I am responding to your email dated xxx where you have rejected my proposal to repay the balance of xxxx by way of monthly payments of £30 and I note that you would be prepared instead to accept a figure of £100 per month. In your email you questioned the amount of £xxx for telephone/mobiles.

 

Unfortunately, much as I would like to reduce this monthly figure this would not be possible given that the mobile phones are provided under contracts with 14 months still remaining.

 

The second item of expenditure that you questioned was the figure of £50 per month for clothing. Before writing to you I had contacted National Debt Line and the figure for clothing (of £50 per month) was within their Common Financial Statement for a family of two adults and a 12 year old child.

 

I am anxious to avoid the account being referred to an individual bailiff as this will add further fees to my account which will make my financial position even worse than it is at present. I am also anxious to get the account paid as soon as possible. With this in mind, I will have to reduce the expenditure for clothing by £20 thereby enabling me to increase the monthly payment proposal to £50 per month. I hope that you will find this revised payment proposal acceptable.

 

I look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible.

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