Economy Energy administrators demanding balance which has been paid

[bob2016]

azzadle, are you saying BT can get the calls from EE, really ?

[silverfox1961]

azzadle, are you saying BT can get the calls from EE, really ?

 

No.

 

In the SAR should be a copy of the recording. EE have stated they have a recording which is classed as a verbal agreement therefore, it should be released as personal data.

 

I ought to mention a company that released phone calls were found to have doctored them. Not this company but you should be aware.

[bob2016]

Got reply from Ofgen today. They've found in favour of EE. Seems like the transcript of the call, which they've refused to send to us, was supplied to Ofgen. How heavily edited i don't know.

 

Anyone think i could get a copy of this from Ofgen tomorrow?

 

Just want to move on, and transfer back to BG. Lot less stress, i tried .. i failed.

 

Ofgen did say that the matter of the SAR was nothing to do with them.

 

Thanks everyone for all the help, Bob

 

silverfox, just out of interest do you know which company was doctoring their calls?

[azzadle]

Ofgem won't send you a copy of the call unfortunately, possibly down to DPA.

 

EE themselves must send ALL calls if the SAR has been made, within 40 working days. This really is your only way of getting hold of that call, if you haven't done so already then don't put it off and get it done, or you'll never get anywhere with those con artists.

[silverfox1961]

I'm sorry that I missed this. No idea why!!

 

The decision from the Ombudsman. Was it an adjudicator or the full Ombudsman response? If ot the Ombudsman, you should be able to escalate to them. They saw a transcript of the call. Why is that and not the actual recording? EE seem to be reluctant to release the recording.

 

As far as the SAR goes, if more than 40 days have passed, contact them and 'remind' them and if they still fail to do so you can escalate to the ICO or take action via the courts to get them to comply.

 

I made an error in my previous post. I said a company had been found to have edited phone calls. In fact it was alleged and the company was BES

[ericsbrother]

A sound engineer proved that BES was using edited versions of a conversation as being verbatim, after being rumbled they have not denied it but said that the recordings are edited to save server space!

[bob2016]

Ofgem won't send you a copy of the call unfortunately, possibly down to DPA.

 

EE themselves must send ALL calls if the SAR has been made, within 40 working days. This really is your only way of getting hold of that call, if you haven't done so already then don't put it off and get it done, or you'll never get anywhere with those con artists.

 

That's what I thought. And I think it's where I went wrong.

 

I sent a SAR on the 3rd January, with my letter of complaint and they just refused to reply to either. But they did send their transcription of the call to the Ombudsman. Which we also haven't seen.

 

Seems to me that EE gets to write their own version of events, and as that's the only version the Ombudsman get to see, they can't lose.

 

I'm sorry that I missed this. No idea why!!

 

The decision from the Ombudsman. Was it an adjudicator or the full Ombudsman response? If ot the Ombudsman, you should be able to escalate to them. They saw a transcript of the call. Why is that and not the actual recording? EE seem to be reluctant to release the recording.

 

As far as the SAR goes, if more than 40 days have passed, contact them and 'remind' them and if they still fail to do so you can escalate to the ICO or take action via the courts to get them to comply.

 

I made an error in my previous post. I said a company had been found to have edited phone calls. In fact it was alleged and the company was BES

 

think it was the full response, had two weeks to reply with new evidence if i wanted to. Just sent an e-mail asking for the Ombudsman to take into account the existed of the recording which EE refused to supply to us.

 

 

What's an adjudicator? and how's that different from a 'full ombudsman' ?

[silverfox1961]

All complaints are assessed by an adjudicator first. These are people with the experience of dealing with the facts of the case and making the preliminary decision which is normally acceptable to the complainant.

On the occasions where a complainant is not satisfied with the decision, the adjudicator then passes the file upwards. There is only a few actual Ombudsmen/women so if they handled all cases, they would soon be overwhelmed so they only handle the more complex cases (such as this one)

 

The Ombudsmans decision is binding on the company but not the complainant. The only way after rejecting a complaint is for the complainant to begin legal action. If that route was chosen, the full unredacted recording must be provided as part of the defence to any claim by EE.

 

Obviously this route will be more complex and shouldn't be taken lightly.

[bob2016]

Thanks silverfox, I wished I'd known this before.

 

a couple of quick questions:

 

Can the Ombudsman request a copy of the unredacted recording?

 

Or can they take into account EE refusing to comply with a SAR?

 

The thought of a frail 79 yr old taking on an iffy Energy Company in court isn't something i'd like to think about. So wish it was my account

[silverfox1961]

Not sure if the Ombudsman can ask or even demand. That, I would have thought would have been important for the Ombudsman to hear the actual recording for him to make an unbiased decision.

 

The non compliance with the SAR is down to the ICO or you via the courts.

 

It doesn't matter initially that that it isn't your account as you have (I hope by now) a letter of authority to act on her behalf. If the case went to court, you could represent her as a 'lay representative'. Due to her age and frailty, I can't see any judge objecting.

[bob2016]

:jaw:The Ombudsman has sent me an audio recording of the call! I've got 14 days to reply.

 

So to the above question, it seems that they can, good to know for anyone else in a similar situation.

[dx100uk]

complete and unedited?

[bob2016]

Yes it's complete and unedited, 18 mins of my Mother agreeing with every statement that the caller made. It's not as helpful to our case as I would have like

 

But there's a few things in our favour. At the start, the caller asked her a really tough question which she had difficulty in understanding, and had to repeat it four times before she realized he was asking for her post code. Later he asked her for her landline number and she thought he was asking for her postcode again. And other similar misunderstanding.

The recording makes it obvious, to me at least, that she has serious hearing difficulties and that she wasn't following or understanding what the call was about.

 

Hoping to get the call looked at by an Ombudsman rather than an adjudicator.

[silverfox1961]

Under the Equalities Act, companies must make reasonable adjustments when they feel they have a vulnerable customer. The first few minutes of the phone call should have alerted EE to that fact.

 

They should have written to her once they realised she was hard of hearing.

[bob2016]

Have to agree with you Silverfox, it's seems clear to me that the first few minutes showed that either my Mother had hearing difficulties or there was problems with the line, or something. And I think they should had asked about her hearing, they did later ask if she had any medical conditions etc, my Mother mentioned a few, but not hearing loss.

The Ombudsman feels that on balance she understood the conversation.

 

A quick question to anyone, is a verbal agreement over the telephone valid if they don't send out the complete terms and conditions and that they said they would?

 

thanks, bob

[ericsbrother]

on your last point, it may be enough to repudiate the contract but not always. I would go with it though and make them show that they are right rather than placing the onus on you to show they are wrong

[bob2016]

ok ericsbrother. I'm doing this through the Ombudsman so i'll ask them and give it a try, and see what they say.

[azzadle]

I don't believe so. We had an issue with people not receiving their welcome packs sometime last year and BG were urging customers to call us to tell us this makes the contract invalid.

 

The WP is basically the nitty gritty T's and C's - the main points should be covered in the call, but if a customer has no access to the FULL T's and C's then they don't know exactly what they're agreeing to, thus the sale should be cancelled.

[bob2016]

So azzadle, you believe the contract is not valid without the full terms and conditions being sent out, correct?

 

would anyone like to comment or expand on this? Seems like the best hope of stopping this 'erroneous transfer' at the moment.

[ericsbrother]

well worth a try. It will be clear to EE that they are not wanted so may well make them drop their hands

[bob2016]

Oh, I think EE knows by now they're not wanted. Got a surprise from the Ombudsman it seems like EE has put their hands up to 'poor customer service' and have offered Fifty pounds credit as an apology. Any thoughts anyone? Really didn't expect that. Still haven't sent the query about not receiving the full terms and conditions.

 

Maybe quit while I'm ahead, and on condition they don't stop Mother's transfer back to British Gas, which should be going through in the next week or so.

[silverfox1961]

Although this has cost you a lot in time and energy, I feel you should accept and move to BG. At least you can put this sorry situation to rest. Get confirmation in writing that they will allow the transfer. I'm not sure that a £50 credit is sufficient as it should have been a cheque but if that helps clear any balance then there is nothing to lose.

[bob2016]

My feelings exactly Silverfox, way out of my depth, should have gone to Citizens advice at the start.

 

Received letter from EE today saying that the account with them will be closed next week, so I've replied to the Ombudsman saying She'll accept the offer on condition they don't try and stop the transfer at the last minute.

 

Thanks to everyone for all the help along the way.

 

Bob

[bob2016]

Hi received this letter it says there's an outstanding balance that needs paying on my Mother's old EE account.

 

Long story, on this  site somewhere, but the account was closed with the help of Ofgem and EE was made to pay my Mother

50 quid as compensation for 'poor service'.

 

My Mum passed away last January, and I don't want to get into this with what I believe must be some kinda sc%m.

 

I was a long time carer for Mum and I'm now suffering from Anxiety and depression. Don't want to get into a discussion with these people now.

 

Oh it threatens to increase the amount if I don't pay.

 

But I've got all the paper work from last time just too stressfull atm, still trying to get through one day at a time.

Hope someone can help, lowest stress approach without them getting a penny.

 

Thanks in Advance.

                                           Bob

 

 

AIC.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Threads merged.

 

Andy