1st Credit claiming - old HSBC OD

[xxxxhelpxxxx]

He had a credit card with HSBC but no loan

[dx100uk]

And the balance on that card is still outstanding?

Sorry for all the q's

It just that we often see HSBC do things like dump outstanding card debt into an OF balance or make you take out a managed loan to pay things off and then dump that in the OD...

 

Can you look at the statements and see if any large sums. Were dumped in it?

It anything unusual?

[xxxxhelpxxxx]

The balance of the credit care is still outstanding too.

It is being pursued too but they have given up on that currently.

It hasn't been dumped onto the OD balance

 

CR 31.14 printed and sent by recorded delivery on Thursday

[xxxxhelpxxxx]

He has had acknowledgement from Moon Beever of his request.

 

They say "Thank you for your letter of 26 April 2018. We have requested the docments listed from our client and will forward them to you once received. Signed Moon Beever"

[dx100uk]

Do not miss your defence filing date no matter what

[xxxxhelpxxxx]

Definitely won't miss it. Just got to find and write the defence now!

[dx100uk]

Loads here already

[xxxxhelpxxxx]

1."The Claimant is the assignee of Hsbc Bank Plc.Debt in the sun of £2664 assigned on 23/3/2016. Statuatory notices of assignment were sent to the Defendant.

2.On 01/03/2018 the Claimant changed its name from 1st credit (Finance) Ltd to Intrum Finance Ltd.

3.The debt is for arrears on an overdraft facility and the account was opened by the original creditor on or about 28/06/1985 under reference xyz. The Defendant used the credit facilities.

4.On 19/05/2015 the account defaulted with an outstanding amount of £2,302.

5.The Claimant and its predecessors in title demanded repayment of the sum due.

6.In breach of the contract the Defendant failed to repay the sums due

 

7.AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. The sum of £2,302

2. Statutory INTEREST pursuant t S.69 County Courts Act 1984 at 8% per annum from 05/04/2016 until Judgement or sooner payment"

 

Defence

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1. It is admitted that the Defendant once had banking facilities with the original creditor HSBC Bank plc. It is denied that I am indebted for the alleged balance claimed.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am not aware or ever receiving any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.

 

3. Paragraph 3 is denied. To my knowledge HSBC has never served me a notice pursuant to 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974

 

Any alleged amount claimed could only consist substantially of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments.

The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.

 

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.

 

(a) Provide a copy agreement/overdraft facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception that this claim is based on.

(b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.

© Provide a breakdown of all excessive charging/fees and show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.

(d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

(e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.

 

5. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated 26 April 2018 namely the Overdraft Agreement, Terms and Conditions relevant at the time of inception for the agreed overdraft and Termination Demand Notice inferred by the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.

 

The Claimant has failed to respond or comply with this request.

 

By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

Edited May 23, 2018 by dx100uk
edited

[AndyOrch]

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ?

 

Not to my knowledge

 

Insert the following as your point 1...and renumber

 

1. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

The rest is fine.

 

 

Andy

[xxxxhelpxxxx]

Thanks Andy. I'll amend and get it sent off.

[xxxxhelpxxxx]

Final stupid question before I submit - which do I tick

 

I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true or

I am duly authorised by the defendant to sign this statement - the defendant believes that the facts stated in this form are true

[AndyOrch]

Defendant

[xxxxhelpxxxx]

Thank you. Submitted

[xxxxhelpxxxx]

He's had acknowledgement from the Court giving the claimant 28 days otherwise the claim will be stayed

[AndyOrch]

[xxxxhelpxxxx]

A large file of paperwork has been set to his old address from Intrum.

 

No idea what's in it as his old address is 1.5 hours away from the current one.

 

Rather annoyed to say the least as it is his parents house and they are now very concerned about it (the packet had split partly open on arrival).

 

Surely the solicitor should have requested to be sent to the new address (which they have written to themselves)?

[brassnecked]

Bit naughty that, as they have the correct address.

[xxxxhelpxxxx]

It is. Surely Moon Beever should have told Intrum his new address?

[xxxxhelpxxxx]

So in the package he has received :

 

Notice of Assignment

Introductory Letter (from 1st Credit)

Change of Legal Representative (from Moon Beever to Intrum)

280 pages of statements

HSBC Advance Bank Account Terms and Conditions (they state that as this is a current account, there is no signed agreement available)

A facility letter

 

The date on the footer of the printed documents is 11/17/2016

 

He has also received a letter from Northampton CCBC that the case has been transferred to the County Court local to us as the CCBC Solicitor is No Longer Acting

 

They have also sent copies of the Demand and Final Demand from them for payment and again reiterated that "as this is a current account and was opened prior to 1st February 2011, there are no original Terms and Conditions"

 

Then he received a letter "Without Prejudice Save As To Costs" informing him that they intend to proceed with this matter and setting out what each party will receive in the way of the questionnaire, notice of allocation and direction, etc. They state "To date we have disclosed all available documentation to which which includes the statements of account/payment history; notice of assignment; the terms and conditions on default; the pre-Final Demand letter and the Final Demand. We intent to proceed to trial and obtain judgement and will seek costs; and interest against you, which to date is as follows £xxxxx (they break down the costs). Notwithstanding the above we remain of the view that this claim is capable of being settled and we are prepared to make a settlement offer. For the avoidance of doubt any previous offers are revoked."

 

They will accept £2,100 in full and final settlement, including interest, costs

or £2,800 by instalments.

[AndyOrch]

So if its been transferred from Northampton to your local CC then the claimant has informed them they wish to proceed.The above is the claimants offer of settlement and your opportunity to agree a settlement before its allocated.

 

The claimants will have to pay a further hearing fee hence the above offer.

 

Do you feel that what they have provided is sufficient to attain judgment in court ?

 

Would you possibly consider accepting their offer to avoid further costs and judgment ?

 

The figures they propose are a some what confusing.......

 

From their particulars......

 

Debt in the sun of £2664 assigned on 23/3/2016

On 19/05/2015 the account defaulted with an outstanding amount of £2,302.

 

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. The sum of £2,302

 

Total amount of claim £2,850

 

They will accept £2,100 in full and final settlement, including interest, costs

or £2,800 by installments.

 

 

Andy

[xxxxhelpxxxx]

The amount on the original claim form was £2302.93 + interest of £361.50 from 5/4/2016 + £150 court fee + £50 legal representative fee = £2849.43

The amount they are claiming now is £2302.93 + interest of £400 + £105 Issue fee + £80 solicitor fee = £2887.93

 

I have no idea if this is defendable or not! Obviously my partner is stressing so much about this. I have no idea how we would raise that sort of money

[dx100uk]

Weve no lost an OD case yet

[AndyOrch]

Well they would only get interest if the court award judgment..so a starting negotiable figure would be £2302.93 + £150 court fee + £50 legal representative fee.= £2502.29

 

Section 69 interest is at the discretion of the court....as is 8%..it may be half....so lets disregard the £361.50.

 

Whether to try to negotiate a settlement is subject to how important it is you dont lose or attain a CCJ ?

 

If its irrelevant and your CRAs are already shot...you continue and take your chance in court and see what the court states.If you lose you can always make application to vary it to monthly affordable payment albeit with a CCJ on your file for 6 years.

 

If its vital you dodge the CCJ then settlement is the only option but I would be starting at a figure of £2502.29 paid monthly....each party to bear their own costs.

 

I see no justification as to why a FFS should be lower than a monthly payment option...but you do have to start with the correct initial figure which as stated is £2502.29.

[xxxxhelpxxxx]

He hasn't got the best credit history but has no CCJ's and most of the defaults drop off in 3/4 years.

 

If he negotiates a FFS and they agree, will this pave the way for them pursuing the CC debt with them? The CC debt chasing seems to have dropped since we asked them to rpvide documentation

[dx100uk]

Please dont capitulate!

All you do is fund their fleecing of 10,000 just like you.