Jump to content


style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 1065 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Back in August I moved into a 2 bedroom flat that was sold to me as a 2 bedroom self contained flat.

 

The landlady is now beginning to cause me some issues.

 

She keeps referring to me as a lodger, and the 'Lodgers Agreement'. True, I do have a lodgers agreement, but she does not live in the property.

 

The landlady is getting shirty with me having people round, namely, I have begun dating someone, and she has an issue with him staying. She was quite vile to him the other day, and made reference to the fact that he is 'moving in'. This is not true, he occasionally stays over as we haven't known each other for very long, and he lives 2 hours away from me. She also went on to ask what I was doing for Christmas ('I assume she'll be spending Christmas with you') and told him details of my rent payments. My agreement does not saying anything about overnight guests, and this was first an issue at the end of October - the first time I had anyone other than my parents stay over (a couple of friends that had been to thee Halloween party my landlady hosted - she had known for weeks that they were staying).

 

She will often text me to say she is staying on the sofa, as she likes to go out and get drunk in the town I am in.

 

She has demanded to have access to the property at all times.

 

My issue is this;

 

I found out yesterday that it is not actually legal to have a lodger if you do not live in the property, and that would in fact, make me a tenant (thus me having more rights).

 

I believe she is actually subletting.

 

I'm planning on leaving as soon as I can, but in the mean time I would like to enjoy my home without fear of her pretty much harassing me.

 

Any advice???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Back in August I moved into a 2 bedroom flat that was sold to me as a 2 bedroom self contained flat.

 

The landlady is now beginning to cause me some issues.

 

She keeps referring to me as a lodger, and the 'Lodgers Agreement'. True, I do have a lodgers agreement, but she does not live in the property.

 

The landlady is getting shirty with me having people round, namely, I have begun dating someone, and she has an issue with him staying. She was quite vile to him the other day, and made reference to the fact that he is 'moving in'. This is not true, he occasionally stays over as we haven't known each other for very long, and he lives 2 hours away from me. She also went on to ask what I was doing for Christmas ('I assume she'll be spending Christmas with you') and told him details of my rent payments. My agreement does not saying anything about overnight guests, and this was first an issue at the end of October - the first time I had anyone other than my parents stay over (a couple of friends that had been to thee Halloween party my landlady hosted - she had known for weeks that they were staying).

 

She will often text me to say she is staying on the sofa, as she likes to go out and get drunk in the town I am in.

 

She has demanded to have access to the property at all times.

 

My issue is this;

 

I found out yesterday that it is not actually legal to have a lodger if you do not live in the property, and that would in fact, make me a tenant (thus me having more rights).

 

I believe she is actually subletting.

 

I'm planning on leaving as soon as I can, but in the mean time I would like to enjoy my home without fear of her pretty much harassing me.

 

Any advice???

 

"I found out yesterday that it is not actually legal to have a lodger if you do not live in the property, and that would in fact, make me a tenant (thus me having more rights)" isn't correct.

 

I'm not completely sure about "it is not actually legal to have a lodger if you do not live in the property", but that sounds correct.

"that would in fact, make me a tenant" is wrong, though.

 

There is another possibility other than lodger or tenant. You might hold a licence to occupy.

 

How your occupation is described in the agreement can be used to suggest the intent of the parties, which is a factor in how the law decides "tenant or licensee".

 

However there is case law (where the description in the agreement was held to be a device / "a sham"), where the details of the agreement counted for more.

 

One of the key factors will be if the agreement gives you "exclusive possession" of one or more rooms AND they are specified in the agreement (e.g. Room A, Room 1, or even "upstairs left bedroom").

 

http://www.ehlsolicitors.co.uk/tenancy-agreement-licence-occupy/

 

What does your agreement say?. Does it mention "quiet enjoyment"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello there, I'm sorry to hear of your problems.

 

Can you tell us what paperwork you signed at outset please?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The agreement refers to a 'flat share', although she does not live here. It makes no reference to a particular room, in fact I was told that it was *my* flat at the start of the tenancy. She pays nothing towards gas, electric, TV license, phone, broadmand etc, but she does pay water & council tax - this is stated in the agreement, although another thing she has aid to someone else is that she pays the majority of the bills. Gas, electric & broadband are all in my name. She also runs a business in t he primises under the flat.

 

It has a section titled 'property permissions' whic says no smoking, pets at landlords consent and no home business. Nothing about overnight guests.

 

It's a very basic agreement, and much simpler than anything else I have ever had.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like a licence rather than a tenancy.

Does it say anything about duration?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sounds like a licence rather than a tenancy.

Does it say anything about duration?

 

"Automatic renewal on a yearly basis"

 

I just want to be able to enjoy a place I pay a lot of money for and that was meant to be *my* place. They're was none of this mentioned when I moved in and I wouldn't have taken the place if I'd known she would be so disrespectful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

who actually owns the property? You can check with the Land Registry for £3 online. You may find out that you have no security and she has no rights to charge you for being there on the current basis. You may want to consider your options before speaking with her to further this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
who actually owns the property? You can check with the Land Registry for £3 online. You may find out that you have no security and she has no rights to charge you for being there on the current basis. You may want to consider your options before speaking with her to further this.

 

She rents from a local agency. I'm pretty sure she is telling them she either lives here or she's using it for storage for the business below.

 

I wasn't aware of this when I moved in, I was given the impression that she owned it.

 

Basically I want to know of she has the right to say to visitors that they can't be here without her permission.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Basically I want to know of she has the right to say to visitors that they can't be here without her permission.

 

If you have a tenancy : she has no say over infrequent visitors (though she can prevent sub-letting), without a specific term in the tenancy.

 

If you are occupying under a licence : she can permit or deny any overnight visitors.

 

I fear that you have a licence rather than a tenancy.

 

I'm planning on leaving as soon as I can,

 

Sounds sensible, if it isn't what you want & you don't trust her anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I fear that you have a licence rather than a tenancy.

Possibly but, as you suggested earlier, the key is exclusive possession. I once rented a single room in a house that the landlady used as an office (i.e. like the OPs ll, she didn't live there). The agreement stated that it was a house share agreement. When it got to court the judge ruled that I was actually renting under a SST

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Possibly but, as you suggested earlier, the key is exclusive possession. I once rented a single room in a house that the landlady used as an office (i.e. like the OPs ll, she didn't live there). The agreement stated that it was a house share agreement. When it got to court the judge ruled that I was actually renting under a SST

 

 

She will often text me to say she is staying on the sofa,

.............

She has demanded to have access to the property at all times.

 

Doesn't sound like exclusive possession either by the agreement or by events.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a very similar situation to the one that I was in. The whole house/flat is clearly not in the exclusive possesion of me/the OP but in my case the judge ruled that, because I had exclusive possession of one of the bedrooms it was an AST

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry, what is an sst?!!

 

And what would that mean for me!?

 

I'm hoping to be able to leave within the next couple of months, but I fear that I'll have to put up with her behaviour over Christmas. I work a lot and I really don't appreciate her waking me up at 3am when she comes back drunk and contributes nothing to the electricity she uses whilst she's here (she always leaves the lights on all night), and I don't want her harassing visitors.

 

It pretty much comes down to jealousy that I have other friends, unfortunately.

 

I just want a peaceful life and could do without being made to feel uncomfortable in (what I thought was) my own home.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question

 

I know you say the landlord pays the council tax but are you sure they have informed the council tax dept that you are also living there and of the Lodger Agreement?


How to Upload Documents/Images on CAG - **INSTRUCTIONS CLICK HERE**

FORUM RULES - Please ensure to read these before posting **FORUM RULES CLICK HERE**

I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If LL does not reside there then it will be deemed to be a Tenancy ( AST rules will apply by default. )

However all could be undone if she actually does not have permission in her lease to sublet the accommodation above the shop?

I suggest you consult Shelter for advice, either by email or phone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Question

 

I know you say the landlord pays the council tax but are you sure they have informed the council tax dept that you are also living there and of the Lodger Agreement?

 

I'm registered to vote there, and they have sent me letters regarding council tax, however I don't know if she has told them directly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If LL does not reside there then it will be deemed to be a Tenancy ( AST rules will apply by default. )

However all could be undone if she actually does not have permission in her lease to sublet the accommodation above the shop?

I suggest you consult Shelter for advice, either by email or phone.

 

As agencies very rarely allow subletting, I doubt she has permission. A number of things just don't add up now. I think she thought she was being clever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it does look as though you are in a sticky situation as the person you are paying rent to has no authority to let you be there. This gives you no security whatsoever and whether she tells you no visitors or no pets is immaterial. If you gace her a deposit then you should make it clear that you expect it returned to you the moment you leave the place. If you know where else she is living them you should send her a letter via there, by hand if possible and via the agency but not until you are ready to leave on your own free will.

She rents from a local agency. I'm pretty sure she is telling them she either lives here or she's using it for storage for the business below.

 

I wasn't aware of this when I moved in, I was given the impression that she owned it.

 

Basically I want to know of she has the right to say to visitors that they can't be here without her permission.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like she's making money by renting a room to you without authority.

That's why she pays the council tax.

Also, by having you as a lodger (in her mind) she can benefit from the rent a room scheme which is tax free for all up to £7500/year.

In other words, by having free access to your flat and sleeping there occasionally, makes her think that you're just a lodger renting a room and she keeps your money tax free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

she wouldnt want to create a tenancy becuse she cant and would most likely get booted out herself if the LL knew what was going on. Also CT liability would probably change

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get housing benefit and of course, because I say I have a 2 bed property, I get money knocked off.

 

I feel so stupid.

 

Hopefully I'll be able to get out of here very soon. I was living in a touring caravan before I got this flat. I'm half tempted to go back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

not sure how HB treats lodgers but it might me worth investigating whether you are better off saying that you sahre K7B etc and the other person doesnt pay any of the rent. I would imagine that tey will allocate a portion and they will do thsi in a way that saves them money so find out from Shelter or the like before speaking to council

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is K7b?

 

I'm going to get my agreement scanned and get in touch with shelter.

 

She came back after being at the pub all night last night and left lights on all through the house, do you think I'm within my rights to ask for money towards the electricity? I don't get paid until tomorrow, and was already on the emergency credit and quite frankly I think that her doing that every time she stays is taking the pi**. I'd tools jet the spate Ron was made up, but she chose to use the sofa, throwing a pile of washing on the floor and using a towel as a cover and rending my living room unusable for me to have breakfast until she left!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That sounds like a good idea, JB. It sounds to me as if she's taking the mick. I would be inclined to broach the subject of electricity, but how do you think she'll react?

 

How are you getting on with finding somewhere else to live?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...