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Prescribed terms in fixed sum variable rate agreements.Yorkshire Bank

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Am I correct that the prescribed terms for a fixed sum variable rate consumer credit act agreement is:

 

a amount of credit

b interest rate

c amount of payment

 

Credit £25,000

 

Interest £9.319,57 applied at 4.5% above banks base rate 5%

 

payments £408.68 x 84

 

Theres no total amount payable as this could alter due to an interest change throughout the time of the agreement. However, the amount of credit plus the interest applied to the credit do NOT equal the initial monthly payment?

 

£25,000 plus £9.319.57 = £34,319.57 divide by 84 payments = £408.56

 

This payment appears to be 12 pence less than the payment stated on the agreement. Anyone clued up on this?

 

Paul


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As its a variable rate loan/agreement then 12p is neither here nor there, looks quite normal as far as agreements go.


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As its a variable rate loan/agreement then 12p is neither here nor there, looks quite normal as far as agreements go.

 

So you believe misstating a prescribed term is irrelevant?


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what do you think Andy?


An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

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So you believe misstating a prescribed term is irrelevant?

 

No a prescribed term is very relevant, but if the interest rate varies at any point then the monthly payment by nature will also vary, so in that respect a 12p difference is really quite irrelevant.

 

Where is it you are trying to go with this, annulment of agreement maybe?

 

Couldn't see a court in the land agreeing there was an issue to be frank.


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No a prescribed term is very relevant, but if the interest rate varies at any point then the monthly payment by nature will also vary, so in that respect a 12p difference is really quite irrelevant.

 

Where is it you are trying to go with this, annulment of agreement maybe?

 

Couldn't see a court in the land agreeing there was an issue to be frank.

 

Payments under a loan agreement are a prescribed term are they not?

 

Regards


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Stop sitting on fence Andy. If the payments are incorrect on a loan agreement would it render it unenforceable????/


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Bottom is getting sore anyway now...sorry Paul only just got back on the forum:-)...I personally would have to agree with Martin...it wouldn't render it unenforceable IMHO...but it would allow you to possibly seek recompense..subject to the age and how much the payments have varied?


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Bottom is getting sore anyway now...sorry Paul only just got back on the forum:-)...I personally would have to agree with Martin...it wouldn't render it unenforceable IMHO...but it would allow you to possibly seek recompense..subject to the age and how much the payments have varied?

 

Andy, my understanding is that if a prescribed term has been misstated it renders the agreement unenforceable. have i got this wrong??


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What date is the agreement Paul?


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What date is the agreement Paul?

 

Feb 2007


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Pre April 2007...therefore is it missing or just misleading.....s61(1)(a) Consumer Credit Act 1974.


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Pre April 2007...therefore is it missing or just misleading.....s61(1)(a) Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 

The credit limit in Wilsons case was not missing it was mis stated this rendered the agreement unenforceable.

 

Ive been contacted by a pensioner who's husband recently passed away. The bank are withholding ppi totalling £33k that was mis sold on several loans. Ive read the letter sent to her MP last week and it reveals her husband never signed what the bank refers to a regulated agreement as an "amendment" document.

 

Paul


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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?335464-Prescribed-terms-in-an-agreement

 

Have a read of this thread, post *3 is particularly relevant, note the use of the ANY under 3) Repayments


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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?335464-Prescribed-terms-in-an-agreement

 

Have a read of this thread, post *3 is particularly relevant, note the use of the ANY under 3) Repayments

 

 

Im aware of this and if they use "any" they must make sure "any" is correct.


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Within 3) Repayments, at point (f) The power of the creditor to vary any of the above.

We are talking 12p in variation!

 

I still believe its such a trivial point that no court in the land is going to render it unenforceable. Unless of course there are other enforceability issues?


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Within 3) Repayments, at point (f) The power of the creditor to vary any of the above.

We are talking 12p in variation!

 

I still believe its such a trivial point that no court in the land is going to render it unenforceable. Unless of course there are other enforceability issues?

 

Varying an agreement is totally different to miss stating a prescribed term.

 

If the interest rate in a running credit account (prescribed term) is stated as 29% but is actually 28% do you think a court has the power to enforce just because it's a small differential??


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But that isnt the case that you are referring to, you are referring to a 12p differential on a variable rate loan.

 

I really dont want to engage in a huge debate with you about it, i have given what i believe to be a fair assessment based on the information provided.

You are of course under absolutely no obligation to heed a word i have said.

 

With that in mind i dont think i can be of any further help and will take this opportunity to allow others to comment and shall bow out.

 

Regards

 

Martin2006


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But that isnt the case that you are referring to, you are referring to a 12p differential on a variable rate loan.

 

I really dont want to engage in a huge debate with you about it, i have given what i believe to be a fair assessment based on the information provided.

You are of course under absolutely no obligation to heed a word i have said.

 

With that in mind i dont think i can be of any further help and will take this opportunity to allow others to comment and shall bow out.

 

Regards

 

Martin2006

 

The payments assume no variation of interest in the cca agreement otherwise they could be stated as any amount.

 

Case law confirms a prescribed term cannot be slightly mis-stated.

 

I'll post tomorrow once I have an experts view on this.

 

33. In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under section 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127 (3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement. More detailed requirements, which are designed to ensure that the debtor is made aware, so far as possible, of specified information (including information contained in the minimum terms) are to be found in Schedule 1.


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The thing about APR's is that they must be accurate but there is a very narrow margin of tolerance , even at 0.01% the difference would be far greater than the 12p

 

The rounding may easily be to do with the way interest is calculated

 

As for the PT's you missed the number of payments and when they should start

 

The actual variation is 0.1% in APR

The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983.pdf


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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The thing about APR's is that they must be accurate but there is a very narrow margin of tolerance , even at 0.01% the difference would be far greater than the 12p

 

The rounding may easily be to do with the way interest is calculated

 

As for the PT's you missed the number of payments and when they should start

 

The actual variation is 0.1% in APR

 

[ATTACH]65763[/ATTACH]

 

Say the credit is stated as £10k and the interest is £2k (assumes no variance in the rate over the length of the loan) and theres 60 monthly payments, the first payment to be paid one month after the loan is drawn. What would the agreement state the monthly payment to be?


An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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Say the credit is stated as £10k and the interest is £2k (assumes no variance in the rate over the length of the loan) and theres 60 monthly payments, the first payment to be paid one month after the loan is drawn. What would the agreement state the monthly payment to be?

 

 

Credit plus interest = £12k divide by 60 = £200. Is this correct?


An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

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Just a question

 

Is this a defaulted loan that you want to challenge in court or is it an academic discussion?

 

If it was from 2007 and 7 years it should of course have been paid off now.

 

If it has been defaulted , how much is left ?


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Just a question

 

Is this a defaulted loan that you want to challenge in court or is it an academic discussion?

 

If it was from 2007 and 7 years it should of course have been paid off now.

 

If it has been defaulted , how much is left ?

 

Its to be challenged.


An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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