Unknown Lowell CCJ/warrant - got that set aside ok, now lost re original debt again!- old HSBC OD

[Advansec]

Last year out of nowhere I received a warrant for execution for a CCJ that I had no knowledge of.

It transpired that it related to an old overdraft with HSBC that I knew nothing about.

 

 

The claim was filed by Lowell who had never contacted me regarding the debt at any time.

I arranged to have the Judgment set aside and then proceeded to defend the claim.

Judgment has now been found against me and I want to know if anyone can advise me as to what to do next.

 

I have no knowledge of an account with HSBC and never used one.

Lowell have not provided any application form showing that I opened it or used it.

The only evidence they have provided is some copy bank statements from their own database.

The account is in a variation of my name - not the name I used.

I in fact had a different bank account at the time - have had it and used it for over 10 years.

 

First question therefore

- if they do not have an application form or any other form of official evidence

- is that enough basis for a claim?

 

 

I cannot believe that some print-outs from the claimant's own computer is sufficient evidence of anything but is there a legal authority on this point?

 

Second point,

the overdraft was "called in" in 2007 but the claim was issued in 2014.

I disputed this as being statute barred.

 

 

In response Lowell suddenly came up with a spreadsheet from their own computer database with payments supposedly made my me and therefore claimed that it was capable of being the subject of a claim.

 

They have not provided any evidence linking me to these payments

- they are just dates, amounts and say they were made by "standing order" (but no details of the bank they were made from).

 

 

I have spoken to my bank and they confirm no standing order payments or payments of any kind were made on the dates they allege.

 

Do they not have to show where the payments came from?

 

I am now in the position where I need to decide whether to apply to have the Judgment set aside again and dispute it further but having already failed once I am a bit concerned about this.

 

I cannot understand how they can have a valid claim when they have no evidence other than that mentioned above.

How did the Judge find in their favour?

 

I can't afford to make the application to the Court unless I have some solid evidence behind me to fight my corner....

. which is why I am posting on here.

Can anyone point me in the right direction or give me some pointers on how to fight this?

 

I have reported the account to Action Fraud but I don't feel that Lowell will investigate this properly as it is in their interest not too!

If they find evidence of identity theft or fraud - then they don't get their money!

 

I have also reported Lowell to the Financial Ombudsman as I think they are wrong to pursue a statute barred claim.

 

Any help here would really be appreciated as I am at a real loss.

[unclebulgaria67]

Data Protection subject access requests to both Lowell Finance and HSBC.

In the request letters you can ask for specific information.

 

in the letter to Lowell ask them for all data they hold, including full payment information

 

. In the letter to HSBC, provide your full name, DOB and addresses over say the last 15 years, plus any sort code/account numbers to see if there is a match woth you.

 

Ask HSBC to confirm in writing, if your details do not match those of the account holder, as you believe you have been subject to mistaken identity by a Debt Collection Agency.

 

The FOS won't be interested if the courts have been involved.

 

What is the value of this debt roughly ?

 

Are you being chased for payment of the judgement ?

[Advansec]

Thank you for that. That is really helpful.

 

The value is just over £1,000 - Lowell's costs of £400 odd have been added on to that.

 

The date for payment of the judgment set by the court is tomorrow

- I guess I have to apply to have the judgment set aside as I do not plan on paying that?

Or is there another way to stall enforcement action?

[BankFodder]

I'm trying to understand how you had the judgement set aside but then went on to lose the case, when presumably a hearing occurred. And this despite the fact that you say that the debt had nothing to do with you – just apart from the fact that you also say that in statute barred.

 

I think that we need much more detail please

[BankFodder]

I now see that you are suggesting that you might apply for a set-aside again – second time. I'm not sure that you have very much joy with that.

[Advansec]

The first time the Judgment was set aside because I had not received any notification about the debt or the case generally so I was allowed to submit a defence.

 

 

The Judge simply stated that in his Judgment that he was satisfied on the balance of probabilities that the debt was mine and dismissed my defence. That was it. It seems quite unfair and I don't see the logic.

[BankFodder]

Did you attend the hearing?

[Advansec]

No, unfortunately I could not make it

 

 

I wrote to the court in advance of the hearing putting forward my case and asking for my defence to be considered.

I also asked for directions on applying to have the claim struck out for being statute barred.

 

 

It's not ideal but I did think that my correspondence would be given some consideration and not just dismissed out of hand.

 

 

I suppose expecting the Judge to be fair in my absence was asking a bit much!

It doesn't change the fact that the claimant has absolutely no evidence in support of there claim

- other than that printed from their own computer!

 

 

The way I understand it is there has to be some evidence that the person actually entered into a contract (ie an application form).

[AndyOrch]

You stand very little chance unless you attend a hearing as a defendant....relying on submitted evidence in your absence is not advocated.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Old Cogger]

attend

[Advansec]

Unfortunately, that is not always possible.

 

I need assistance going forward - not judgments about circumstances people know nothing about!

 

That may be the case but my question related to what I can do going forward.

 

The court have advised me to apply to have the Judgment set aside but I need some advice before doing that!

[AndyOrch]

Im afraid we do know a lot about the process...as stated above thats why your defence was dismissed.

[BazzaS]

The first judgment was set aside, (presumably on grounds that you hadn't been aware of the case and wished to offer a defence).

The case was re-opened and heard, and now you can't ask for another 'set aside', but based purely on nomenclature, as what you now wish to do is "appeal", rather than "seek a set aside".

 

If you had been at the hearing you may have been better able to present your case, and even if you had still lost, sought "leave to appeal" at the end of the hearing.

 

So, what you have to do now, is both ask for "leave to appeal", and submit the appeal.

For the appeal to stand any chance of success you'll have to identify grounds for appeal (where the judge has made an error of fact, and/or an error of law).

[unclebulgaria67]

Data Protection subject access requests to both Lowell Finance and HSBC.

In the request letters you can ask for specific information.

 

in the letter to Lowell ask them for all data they hold, including full payment information

 

. In the letter to HSBC, provide your full name, DOB and addresses over say the last 15 years, plus any sort code/account numbers to see if there is a match woth you.

 

Ask HSBC to confirm in writing, if your details do not match those of the account holder, as you believe you have been subject to mistaken identity by a Debt Collection Agency.

 

The FOS won't be interested if the courts have been involved.

 

What is the value of this debt roughly ?

 

Are you being chased for payment of the judgement ?

 

Suggest you send off urgent Subject Access Requests to get hold of the information you need.

 

If you find this debt is not yours, you can always approach Lowell with the evidence and suggest that they contact the courts to remove the CCJ or you will appeal and look to Lowell to cover your costs, as well as seeking appropriate compensation for the error.

[BazzaS]

Why was the OP persuing a "statute barred" defence if the alleged debt wasn't theirs?.

 

Surely the defence is either "not my debt", or "was my debt, but is statute barred", but claiming both makes it look like the OP wasn't sure it wasn't their overdraft!

 

(It'd be fine to argue both, in the alternate, if e.g. the overdraft was for a limited company, and an individual director was being sued personally : argue "if the company did owe it, it is statute barred. The director never owed it personally"). No problem there.

Arguing "wasn't me, I'm sure, but just in case it was me it is statute barred" might cast doubt on the reliability of your evidence, which might make their claim it wasn't statute barred more likely to be believed!

[BazzaS]

Suggest you send off urgent Subject Access Requests to get hold of the information you need.

 

If you find this debt is not yours, you can always approach Lowell with the evidence and suggest that they contact the courts to remove the CCJ or you will appeal and look to Lowell to cover your costs, as well as seeking appropriate compensation for the error.

 

The OP should act quickly.

Appeals have a strict timeframe in which they can be lodged, and you'll likely be outside of this by the time you get an SAR back.

The OP can ask for a later appeal to be heard but will have to justify it, and show there was no "undue delay".

[mercyblue]

The first judgment was set aside, (presumably on grounds that you hadn't been aware of the case and wished to offer a defence).

The case was re-opened and heard, and now you can't ask for another 'set aside', but based purely on nomenclature, as what you now wish to do is "appeal", rather than "seek a set aside".

 

If you had been at the hearing you may have been better able to present your case, and even if you had still lost, sought "leave to appeal" at the end of the hearing.

 

So, what you have to do now, is both ask for "leave to appeal", and submit the appeal.

For the appeal to stand any chance of success you'll have to identify grounds for appeal (where the judge has made an error of fact, and/or an error of law).

 

Indeed you would need to seek permission to appeal which you would need to do within 21 days of the verdict. Upon what grounds would you seek to appeal?