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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Hi,

recently I hired a hot tub from a company online who delivered it for a week of hire and put up a small, open sided gazebo around the tub and secured it in place. I hadn't yet moved or touched the gazebo.

The first day was OK, on the second day, I came home from work, and the gazebo had broken free of it's secure fixings and ended up on my lawn. The frame was in a bad shape and clearly could not be used again. I informed the "company" (by all accounts it's just one person) and told them exactly what happened.

His response was that I should be charged for it.

I still have the hot tub at my house and have just requested a copy of my Ts and Cs (which we didn't get after we had signed and paid the money for).

But just from a legal point of view, who has the stronger case?

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Pretty much my take on it!

I'm gutted in a way because he was a really nice guy and I don't want there to be a sour ending to it. So far he is communicating by text messages and I will undoubtedly run into him when he comes back to get the hot tub

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I'm very curious. Please would you post up a picture

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Can the poles not be bent back to straightish?

 

I model is pretty much one of these...

http://www.gardenstreet.co.uk/draper-concertina-folding-gazebo-3m-x-3m-p3231

 

The horizontal poles are concertina folding type and the winds caused the stresses here and completely bent the metal poles from their screws (snapped metal in places). So in a word... no!

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I'm very curious. Please would you post up a picture

 

I'm at work currently, what do you want a picture of? The gazebo frame? See my post reply above for a link to what it should look like and I will get up a picture tonight

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OK an update:

 

My text to him yesterday:

I'm disappointed you have come to the conclusion we need to be charged for the gazebo. Your words to me before you left were that it is fairly secure and should be ok. I think if you had anchored all 4 feet, there might have been a different outcome. I did not intervene with how you put it up. At the end of the day, I hired a hot tub with the gazebo being an extra. If I damaged the hot tub then rightfully so I should be charged. Considering I had to go out and buy my own gazebo as you did not offer to come and put up another one has already made this more expensive than I had anticipated.

I hope you reconsider your stance and put it down to an unfortunate loss as to not dampen the experience for us. And just to know where we stand from a legal point of view, please could you forward us the terms and conditions we signed on delivery as I don't think they were sent to us.

 

His response:

I'm sorry you feel this way. My words to you during installation was to take the gazebo down if there was risk of damage due to weather. This included showing you how to take the sides down by pressing the clips in, unscrewing the water weights and how to collapse the gazebo - this was done before the hot tub instructions began - as it was the most important. It is fairly secure, but you are responsible for ensuring its safety at all times - I cannot monitor the local weather situation across South Wales and not even the Met Office would give a guarantee on the weather.

 

My conversation to you on Thursday evening was that I appreciated that it was dark, raining and cold, and you could have a look if it was OK in the day time and let me know. As I had not heard back from you one would take it that it was usable. Had I known you were wishing to go and purchase a gazebo I could have supplied you with another one. You did not contact me until I contacted you today.

 

As requested I have sent the hire agreement to this address to ensure you have it.

 

We pride ourselves on five years of fantastic service to hundreds of happy customers, we cannot however, justify losses of £50 to replace this new gazebo. As a gesture of goodwill I would be happy to meet you half way and reduce the charge to £25 and hope you see this as a reasonable way forward.

 

Personally, I still feel that I haven't done anything wrong and whilst I understand £25 is not a lot of money, I think the principle of it is where I stand.

 

What would any of you guys do?

 

The bit in the Ts&Cs that applies here:

10. Before using the hot tub the cover must be removed and stored safely. The hot tub, cover and all other associated equipment are required to be stored and secured against damage, loss or theft. The Hirer is responsible for the replacement or repair of any items damaged or not returned to Topaz. The bond given against damages or theft is only part-payment against greater value loss and the Hirer is responsible for the full cost or repair or replacement and any subsequent losses as a result of such damage or failure to return all items in the condition they were received in.
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So, he both advised and showed how to dismantle for adverse weather?

 

I remember as a kid a neighbour borrowed my dads large wooden ladders to paint his house. The wind caught the ladders one night and they fell and snapped, neighbour tried to argue it wasn't his fault as it was the wind. .....My dad verbally tore strips off him.

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So, he both advised and showed how to dismantle for adverse weather?

 

Yes - but also said he has checked whats coming up weather wise and "It should be OK"

I checked it Thurs morning and it was still in place and fine. The wind was pretty much the same as when he put it up. Got home from work where I found the frame mangled on my lawn.

I am not a gazebo or weather expert so how can anybody have the foresight for it? For all I know it could have been a single gust of wind?

 

Plus, does that mean, if today a bolt of lightning hits the hot tub and breaks that I would also have to pay for that too?

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I guess in addition to my argument, I had conflicting advice regarding the Gazebo. If he had stated to take it down and only erect it for the party then I would have followed that advice.

He brought it Tuesday, knowing the party was Saturday.... funnily enough, it was supposed to be delievered on Friday morning but he offered to bring it early - on the Tuesday (probably made it easier for him) so if he delivered it on the day we were supposed to get it then it may not have happened

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My personal feeling on this: He's suffered a loss and looks like he's not insured against damage.

Despite your sound argument that his equipment should be fitted properly, I would go half with him and pay the £25.

I know it's not 100% fair, but somehow I feel sorry for him.

End of the day it's only £25 and compared to the party that would probably cost 10 times that, It's really nothing.

My opinion only, leaving aside all legal arguments.

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sorry to ask but who put up the gazebo? the hire co or you? it is not 100% clear from your post.

If it was the hire co then I would say that all risk is with them as the damage was not forseable or avoidable nor due to negligence on your part. The counterargument here is that you could reasonably be expected to know that gazebos dont withstand storm force winds and should have folded it up but if there is nothing in the terms of hire to suggest that then the first statement stands. a lack of T&C's beforehand to consider does also knock holes in any claim regarding what to do in event of a hurricane.

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sorry to ask but who put up the gazebo? the hire co or you? it is not 100% clear from your post.

If it was the hire co then I would say that all risk is with them as the damage was not forseable or avoidable nor due to negligence on your part. The counterargument here is that you could reasonably be expected to know that gazebos dont withstand storm force winds and should have folded it up but if there is nothing in the terms of hire to suggest that then the first statement stands. a lack of T&C's beforehand to consider does also knock holes in any claim regarding what to do in event of a hurricane.

 

He (the hire company) put up the Gazebo. He showed me how to bring it down in extreme weather if I needed to.

On morning of the day it blew over I checked the setup (hot tub and gazebo) and there was no cause of concern for me to think it should be brought down. If i'd known, of course I would have.

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Personally I think that you showed a lack of care, the item you hired was in your possession at the time and you had been given instructions on how to look after it, you failed to follow these instructions; i can see why the guy has the hump.

It is easier to enter a rich man than for a camel to pass a needle

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Personally I think that you showed a lack of care, the item you hired was in your possession at the time and you had been given instructions on how to look after it, you failed to follow these instructions; i can see why the guy has the hump.

 

Are you him? :razz:

In all seriousness, why wasn't the advice then "I would advise to leave it down until the day of the party" rather than "I have checked the weather, it's pretty secure and should be OK".

With hindsight, I would have 100% taken it down until it was needed. But he set it up for me, left me thinking it would be alright and left me to it. I don't think I showed lack of care, it was up for 1.5 days before it blew down!

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Another thing (sorry for numerous posts on this)>

Say I do pay the guy the £25.. does that mean I get to keep the broken Gazebo? I can at least try to flog the canvas which is still in good order.

 

Come on!?!?

You're probably gonna spend £200 in drinks and are worried about a broken gazebo???

How much you think you can make? A tenner?

With all the hassle of keeping it etc.

Let it go, I would.

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I suppose you would say he should pay because you were using the gazebo as instructed. He would say you should pay because you didn't take the gazebo down before leaving for work.

 

Personally, I think meeting half way sounds reasonable.

 

You could always send him a message back saying you are happy to meet half way at £25 but would like to keep the wreckage!

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