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Ayma

MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

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If you send the SAR's to companies head office for the attention of Data Protection/compliance officer, then they will normally follow a set process and will send everything they can find. BUT if you want them to include anything specific, then you must state what you want e.g telephone recordings, full data log of comments added to your policy and any access to your policy records, data relating to the cancellation including all data relating to emailed cancellation policy notification.

 

In regard to ICOBS and methods of communicatuon, this does not specifically state that cancellation notification has to be by first class or recorded post. It depends on what communication methods were accepted at the time you bought the policy. This is where you need to find out what communication methods were agreed when you bought the policy. Did you agree to be inforned of important things like cancellation by email ? This is something you can ask in the SAR. Ask for details of what communication methods were agreed, when the policy was bought.


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You should have sent the SAR off by now. You don't seem to appreciate the importance of it. Send it today. Send it accompanied by cheque so you can keep a better eye on what happens to it. Send it by guaranteed next day delivery – and keep all receipts.

 

Have a look at ICOBS and specifically have a look at https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/ICOBS/8/1.html which deals with the circumstances in which an insurer can terminate a policy.

 

You better start understanding this very thoroughly because you are unlikely to get the results of your SAR in time and you will need to produce this as part of your defence. I can't remember what the appeal rules are but I suspect that you will need to disclose any new information to the other side meaning the prosecution. I suppose that is pretty unlikely but quite frankly it would be enormously helpful if you able to contact them and discuss it sensibly by telephone and point out them that there is important information here and that wasn't disclosed to the trial judge – the magistrate of the time. Tell them that this is not new facts but it is law which both sides were unaware of and therefore it needs to be taken into consideration.

 

Frankly it would help you enormously if you would be prepared to begin a legal action against the insurer under ICOBS. If you had a County Court claim in process on precisely this point, then I would think it would help you enormously when talking to the CPS and also talking to the court.

 

Although it says that the the date of the appeal cannot be changed, I think that you have got good grounds for trying to ask them – and try to talk to the clerk of the court. These people are pretty reasonable although busy – but if you explain the situation and also explained that there is an important point of law which needs to be put before the judge and you would like to provide advanced documents of it, then the clerk may be prepared to receive them – as long as the CPS gets a copy as well.

 

If you are unable to talk to the CPS then I think that you need to write a letter setting out your grounds of appeal. Have you done this at all? What did you put in your appeal notice? Please can you post up a PDF of it here


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I don't know if this is possible, but after you receive your sar documents, if they include the voicemail, telephone record and email, you could contact the telephone and email providers and ask if indeed that call and email were made.

If you send them the record and email they wouldn't breach the dpa just by telling you that they exist or not.

But I bet they would just ignore.

That's where a solicitor letter would come handy.

If insurance company forge an email and produce that to CPS to be used as evidence they would be risking a serious charge.

I think they would probably say that email and telephone recording have gone missing and that should be your best defence.

However I don't think the cps would be interested in any of this, as far as they're concerned it's your responsibility to make sure you are insured.

They'll probably tell you to start legal proceedings against the insurance company.

Unfortunately you are an easy tick in their book.

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Ayma, have you posted on CAG before under a different name as this rings bells ?


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I don't know if this is possible, but after you receive your sar documents, if they include the voicemail, telephone record and email, you could contact the telephone and email providers and ask if indeed that call and email were made.

If you send them the record and email they wouldn't breach the dpa just by telling you that they exist or not.

But I bet they would just ignore.

That's where a solicitor letter would come handy.

If insurance company forge an email and produce that to CPS to be used as evidence they would be risking a serious charge.

I think they would probably say that email and telephone recording have gone missing and that should be your best defence.

However I don't think the cps would be interested in any of this, as far as they're concerned it's your responsibility to make sure you are insured.

They'll probably tell you to start legal proceedings against the insurance company.

Unfortunately you are an easy tick in their book.

 

Even if the CPS aren't interested, if you bring this up before the judge, then he would be bound to take notice. I'm not talking about the communication here. I'm talking about the use of an administrative detail as a basis for cancelling the policy. If the insurance company have acted unlawfully then the judge must take notice and must deal with it.

 

Ayma, have you posted on CAG before under a different name as this rings bells ?

 

Really? I would be interested to know about this as well in that case.


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Ayma, have you posted on CAG before under a different name as this rings bells ?

 

There is definitely a very similar case on here somewhere... TB

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Even if the CPS aren't interested, if you bring this up before the judge, then he would be bound to take notice. I'm not talking about the communication here. I'm talking about the use of an administrative detail as a basis for cancelling the policy. If the insurance company have acted unlawfully then the judge must take notice and must deal with it.

 

Sadly, whilst the crown court judge will take notice, for the strict liability offence of not having insurance it would be "mitigation" rather than a defence, UNLESS the insurer then agreed to back date the insurance to avoid the offence being committed.

 

If the insurer was shown to be at fault (either completely or partially) but refused to backdate the insurance the judge won't be able to direct a not guilty verdict. However, they would be able to ask (not demand!) the CPS reconsider if prosecution remained in the public interest bearing in mind the new information.

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This is the thread i was thinking of. Seems very similar !

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?458189-Do-I-have-any-hope


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We certainly have lots of stories where insurance companies have cancelled insurance because of some administrative defect. No one has ever taken them to task about it and yet, to my mind, it is definitely in breach of the ICOBS rules


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I suddenly realise that we don't seem to have been told who the insurer is. Why is it that people always posting complaints about insurers, motorcar dealers, all sorts of people – that they never want to name them.


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Anxiety can be a funny thing that leads people to believe the worst e.g that they can't do anything or that giving too much info online might cause problems. Makes it difficult for forums to help !

 

If Amya is Suzuki, the previous poster linked to, it appears they did not follow up with their complaint or get hold of all information.

 

If you send an SAR to Insurers they will send all information if asked. They won't deliberately leave out information, as they are often dealt with by staff that don't deal with underwriting issues, but are compliance officers who just handle the legal stuff. it might be that Amya thinks they won't receive the information, but if you don't ask, you won't get.


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This is the thread i was thinking of. Seems very similar !

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?458189-Do-I-have-any-hope

 

Yes. Looks like a dead ringer to me. Well I hope that the OP doesn't disappear again because it seems to me that they need to start taking some urgent action. A pity he/she abandoned this all those months ago.


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Hey guys, this is the SAR I mashed up, but I'm not sure if it looks offical enough, I will be sending it off during my lunch break next day special delivery. I will also be making a similar one to my telephone provider and email host, it will only cost £30 in total so not a huge fee to pay.

 

Re: Policy Number: 123456789

 

 

Dear Data Protection Officer

 

Re: Subject Access Request – S.7 Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Under the Data Protection Act 1998 I request that you supply me with all data in your possession that relates to me and am entitled to under Section 7(1) of the Act

 

I hereby request the following information;

 

 

A) Copies of all voice telephone calls made, including voice messages left.

B) All internal/external emails sent by you, including dates and times.

C) All internal/external letters sent by you, including dates.

D) All computer logs, notes, transcripts and memos stored on your computers.

E) All information that is stored by you, by any means of storage. If you are unable to comply with any of the above listed requests, you must inform me of such and give your reason why you can not comply.

 

 

I enclose the maximum £10 statutory fee to access all the data that you hold about myself. You have 40 days in which to comply with this request as under The Data Protection Act 1988 regulations. Failure to comply with this request will result in a complaint to the Information Commissioner's Office and potential legal action.

 

If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner's Office can assist you and can be contacted on 0303 123 1113.

 

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

Edited by Ayma

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so are you suzuki110 user-offline.png

and that previous thread?

 

 

dx


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so are you suzuki110 user-offline.png

and that previous thread?

 

 

dx

 

I think the answer is probably yes.

 

I've merged the two threads for context and completeness.

 

I have now merge the two accounts. Suzuki110 is deleted


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Hey,

 

Yes I posted that almost a year ago but forgot my login details and couldn't find it in my bookmarks. I'm suprised you guys could find it :)

 

Is that SAR letter good enough? Do I need to include anything else in the letter as it definitly needs to be sent off today.

 

Thanks guys

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I would include specific details of the call in which the voicemail was allegedly left and the email regarding cancellation.

 

I would also let them know that because there's a crown court case, these evidence will be disclosed to cps.

 

Make sure you ask them the name of the data controller taking full responsibility for the disclosure.

 

Usually they sign the disclosure records with "data controlling team" or similar, so any come back would be against faceless individual who has usually left the company and is now unreachable.

 

At this point they might decide that it's too risky to mud the waters and agree to re-instate your insurance.

 

If they're stupid enough to send you fake records they could potentially be prosecuted if exposed.

 

I bet they will say that email and voicemail are misplaced, of course after giving you the runaround for a few months.

 

As soon as you approach the 40 days mark, let's say after 30 days, start sending them reminders.

 

If they go over the 40 days report them immediately to the ico and let them know how important this disclosure is.

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Here is the revised SAR: Any final thoughts? I really need to post this out today. Thanks guys!

 

Dear Data Protection Officer

 

Re: Subject Access Request – S.7 Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Under the Data Protection Act 1998 I request that you supply me with all data in your possession that relates to me and am entitled to under Section 7(1) of the Act.

 

I hereby request the following information;

 

A) As all calls are recorded, I require all voice telephone calls made, including voice messages left.

B) All emails sent by you, including dates and times.

C) All letters posted by you, including dates.

D) All computer logs, notes, transcripts and memos stored on your computers.

E) All information that is stored by you, by any means of storage.

 

If you are unable to comply with any of the above listed requests, you must inform me of such and give your reason why you can not comply.

 

I would like to bring to your attention that because there is a current Crown Court case in motion, any evidence received will be disclosed to the CPS.

 

I enclose the maximum £10 statutory fee to access all the data that you hold about myself.

You have 40 days in which to comply with this request as under The Data Protection Act 1988 regulations. Failure to comply with this request will result in a complaint to the Information Commissioner's Office and immediate legal action being taken against you.

 

If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner's Office can assist you and can be contacted on 0303 123 1113.

 

Please also sign with the full name/s of the data controller/s taking full responsibility for this disclosure.

 

Yours sincerely

 

The thing I'm worried about is by mentioning the CPS and courts etc that the controller would get intrigued and look past the simple request and start cherry picking data to provide in the fear of loosing his job?

 

 

I know it sounds odd but why would you sign something that will cost your company bit of money at the end?

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The thing I'm worried about is by mentioning the CPS and courts etc that the controller would get intrigued and look past the simple request and start cherry picking data to provide in the fear of loosing his job? I know it sounds odd but why would you sign something that will cost your company bit of money at the end?

 

It won't have that effect, because they will realise that not providing full information could cause then even more of a problem. If it were found out they had deliberately not disclosed information, they would be in trouble with the courts, FCA and ICO. It would be a criminal offence they would have committed.

 

Suggest you head the letter ' urgent request required for court purposes'


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ok will do, so is the letter satisfactory? Nothing I might have left out or need to remove?

 

Thanks again!

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Just send it. It should have gone ages ago.

 

Have you read up on ICOBS? Tell us what you understand about it.


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You should include the following:

In particular I request telephone voice recording and of your alleged call to me in which a voicemail message was left advising about the imminent insurance cancellation.

- Telephone bill record about the same call.

- copy of the email sent by you to my registered email address advising about the imminent insurance cancellation.

 

Then at the end:

I request that your data controller personally signs this disclosure with his/her name, taking full responsibility for its accuracy and compliance with dpa 1998.

Should the disclosure not bear an individual's name, the company director shall be deemed vicariously responsible for it.

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Just a quick update, I sent the SAR off on Tuesday, next day signed for.

 

 

Before I did I phoned the insurance company to comfirm an address, and they said I had to wait 60 days to have anything returned to me, so I kindly reminded them of the regulations that clearly state 40 days.

 

The thing here is, should I also send a S.A.R to my phone company and email provider.... just in case?

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Are you recording your calls? I suppose the answer is probably no you're not.

 

Call them again but this time record the call. Ask them about the deadline and see if you can get them to repeat once again that you will have to wait 60 days. If you can get this recording, it will be extremely useful. Come back here and tell us.

 

I don't think there's any point in sending SARs to anybody else.

 

Have you been reading up on ICOBS?


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Just a quick update, I sent the SAR off on Tuesday, next day signed for. Before I did I phoned the insurance company to comfirm an address, and they said I had to wait 60 days to have anything returned to me, so I kindly reminded them of the regulations that clearly state 40 days.

 

The thing here is, should I also send a S.A.R to my phone company and email provider.... just in case?

 

Some Insurers have call centres in India or they are outsourced. So sometimes anything beyond their scripted answers or training might not be helpful.

 

If you ever send off an SAR always send to a companies UK head office office marked for the attention of Head of Compliance/Data Protection Officer, marked urgent. If you explain the urgency most companies can get hold of data within a couple of weeks. Even if any of it has gone to external storage or has been archived, it can be retrieved in a few days. The reason they take so long, is the volume of requests received and if you don't stress the urgency, you will be in a queue.

 

If you can obtain proof from your phone/email provider via an urgent SAR that you never had communications from the Insurers, then it might help. The problem might be that any email sent via an Insurers computer system has not worked. if the email address added to their records was slightly wrong, then it would not have been received.


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