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MCE Insurance cancelled policy on a technicality - Conviction quashed ICOBS

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hello,

 

not long ago I thought I'd get myself a second job and thought doing pizza delivery wasn't such a bad idea seen as I'd be getting free pizza's every night (sad i know)

 

So I went and got my CBT, purchased a bike got it taxed and bought courier insurance to go along with it and away I went. A few weeks back I was involved in a head on collision with a van, it decided to cut in front of me from the opposite lane to turn into a side street with no indication as I was doing about 30mph thus I ended up smashing into his bonnet at full speed and straight onto the ground knocking me out for a bit. I woke up in hospital hours later.

 

Later that day the police arrived and oddly enough kept asking me about insurance. I said I had insurance but they told me that I didn't. I told them that is impossible as the payment was made in full etc and I never canceled my insurance.

 

They came back to me shortly after speaking to the insurance firm and they told me that the insurance company canceled my insurance because I apparently failed to provide them my CBT. I contested and showed that I have a CBT etc, but the police where not interested and slapped me with the offense of driving without insurance, then they nicked the keys and took the bike away to a pound.

 

After I got out of hospital I got on the phone to the insurance company, and they told me it states in their T&C that they have the right to cancel my insurance randomly at any point in the event that I fail to provide a copy of my CBT. They never sent me any letters, nor did they telephone or text me and I certainly have no emails from them asking me for a copy of my CBT.

 

Do I have any hope in fighting the insurance company in court for the outright idiocy for not even having the courtesy to call the customer to tell them the insurance has been canceled and to stop riding the bike? They never even sent me a cancellation email, NOTHING! Any letters they may have sent would have been clogged up in the Christmas break, which is when they apparently canceled the insurance. (btw, still have not received any letters.)

 

I am sure I now have a criminal record because of this, thus, ruining any future jobs in which a criminal background check is asked, which is almost everything these days. I was about to apply for a bus driving job and it specifically said, regardless of the offense, if you have a criminal record, you application will be automatically rejected. I am mortified right now.

 

Any advice is appreciated at this point, thanks!

 

MCE Insurance - https://www.mceinsurance.com/

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Yes, I think that there is quite a lot of hope - but it will depend on whether you are prepared to take some serious action.

 

Please start reading up about ICOBS and monitor this thread for a fuller response later


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Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

Do you have a copy of the terms and conditions to hand? If so, can you upload them in pdf format for all to see (minus personal details)

 

My opinion is that as this is a 'significant' term, this should be highlighted in the main terms, not hidden away in the rest of the document.

 

Insurance companies love to take your money but when it comes to leg work, they expect the customer to do the running. A simple email is all that is required.

 

Name and shame the insurance company as well please.


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You need a full explanation from the Insurers. Make a complaint in writing and threaten to involve the FOS. It may also be worth making a Data Protection Subject Access Request to get them to supply all data they hold.

 

If they wanted a copy of the CBT, they should have told you this when you bought the policy and reminded you when sending the policy documents. They are also required to give you 7 days notice of cancellation.

 

Which company did you buy the policy from ? Always worth mentioning online, as others may have experience of dealing with the company.


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I'm sorry to say that the position in the approach outlined in the above two posts is wrong.

 

The situation is the insurance company is not allowed to deny liability where the defect or breach that they are referring to does not materially affect the risk.

 

The failure to provide a copy of the CBT clearly has had no effect on whether or not you would have had the accident. It would be nonsense for them to try and say so.

 

If you didn't have a CBT then this could materially affect the risk because it would mean that you probably weren't qualified to drive and didn't have the knowledge or experience to do so. However, this is not the case here.

 

Therefore in terms of any withdrawal of cover, the insurance company is in breach of contract.

 

Additionally, the insurers are bound by ICOBS. ICOBS requires them to treat you fairly. There is also a very clear requirement in ICOBS that they are not entitled to withdraw, simply because of some administrative defect or failing – such as you failing to notify the insurer of a loss within 24 hours or 48 hours or some other stimulated time in terms and conditions, or such as you failing to provide them with a copy of the CBT – assuming that there was a valid one in force at the time – and we understand from you that there was.

 

Furthermore, although it is not specifically mentioned in ICOBS, I have no doubt that the requirement of the insured to treat you fairly means that they cannot unilaterally and without any notice and without good reason withdraw insurance cover – especially when the insurance policy has been fully paid up. This is clearly extremely unfair and also it is prejudicial not only to you but also to any third party who might be involved in an accident with you and how might need to claim from your insurance.

 

The question now is how do you deal with this. You can go to the Financial Ombudsman Service however, I can tell you now that the FOS is not qualified to deal with ICOBS problems – in exactly the same way that they are not qualified to deal with BCOBS problems. The reason for this is that they remit of the FOS is to seek a solution which is fair to both sides. However, ICOBS and the other FCA regulations are far more one-sided than that and they simply require that the insurer or the bank or the lender et cetera treats their customer fairly. If you look at the FOS website, you will see scarcely and maybe no reference at all to ICOBS, BCOBS, MCOBS, or any of the other FCA regulations. I believe that the FOS is fully aware that they are not able to apply these regulations and so therefore they steer clear of them partly because they want to save themselves embarrassment and also, because I feel that they don't want to stir it up for the companies which are bound by those regulations.

 

However, if you want to do it that way then you could go to the FOS but I don't reckon your chances very much and also I expect that it would take quite a long time – maybe anything up to 12 months or more. During this time of course you will not have your insurance, you will have your bad record, you may be convicted before the criminal court and all the rest of it.

 

I'm afraid that the only way to deal with this is to write to the insurer very certainly very aggressively and assert your position – but also make it clear to them that if they will not reinstate your insurance and also write to the police and tell them that your insurance was in place – and also write to the court where no doubt you will be tried for this, then you will start a County Court claim against them and without any further notice.

 

Believe me, you won't be able to bluff this one out. If not interested in doing this thing go to the FOS but it will cost you dearly and frankly I put money on the FOS refusing to help you. They are limp wristed and helpless at the best of times and in something like this they are likely to show their loyalty to the industry because to find against the insurer here with stirring up for all the other people who have had their insurance arbitrarily cancelled simply because of some technical problem.

 

If you want, we will help you. We have had lots of situations where insurance companies have arbitrarily and peremptorily cancel peepers insurance and I think it's outrageous and I think it's bullying. However, nobody so far has decided to stand up to them. Would you like to be the first?

 

We will help you but you will have to do your own homework and you will have to make sure that you understand that it is your case and that you will have to have the energy and the enthusiasm for it.

 

It's not difficult but you will have to be persistent and you will have to maintain your energy and your interest. Incidentally, I'm not saying that this is going to be a quick solution either, but it is your best chance.


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Agree totally with bank fodder. The insurance company is totally in the wrong if as you state you have cbt.

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Agree totally with bank fodder. The insurance company is totally in the wrong if as you state you have cbt.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the insurer is totally in the wrong but their approach to it is wrong.

The insurer is obliged by statute to act reasonably, to treat the client fairly and not to deny liability or to withdraw cover simply because of a technical administrative breach of a contractual term.

The requirements of the statute take precedence over the contract and have the effect of invalidating those terms which are counter to the statute and also to render unlawful any industry practice which does not comply with the statute.

 

I understand very well that it is common practice for insurers to cancel - but that does not mean they are in the right.

 

Of course, the client should have complied with the contractual requirements to furnish a copy of the required document - but as long as there was a document in force, the failure to provide it has not added to the risk and has not been the cause of the accident.

The insurers are acting unlawfully.


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Any chance of some dates? When was the policy taken out, when was it cancelled and when was the accident? Have the insurers admitted that at no point did they ask you to actually evidence your CBT?

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The OP seems to have disappeared. He made on post here and 2 or 3 on MSE and on Pepipoo and hasn't reappeared to find out answers to any of them.

A shame because I think that he has a high chance of success and it would have been an extremely interesting and useful case


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It also depends on what type of insurance the OP had as was working at the time of an accident. Did he have commercial insurance or other?. Or was his bike covered by the company's insurance?

 

We may now never know...


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The simple point is that if the OP wants help, they will have to come back to these forums and be available to provide more information.

 

Perhaps the Insurers made a mistake not clearly asking for the CBT. Perhaps they did not send confirmation of the cancellation.


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The OP seems to have disappeared. He made on post here and 2 or 3 on MSE and on Pepipoo and hasn't reappeared to find out answers to any of them.

A shame because I think that he has a high chance of success and it would have been an extremely interesting and useful case

 

Hi BankFodder and many apologizes to all regarding this terribly late reply. My life has been hectic for the last few weeks beyond belief.

 

My lower back was in a fair amount of pain for a few weeks causing me to quit my main job and search for another, I also had to move out of the place I was living as the rent became unbearable, which was the reason I picked up a second job in the first place.

 

I recently got a steady job and settled back down so I have some free time on my hands again.

 

I will keep you guys posted later in the evening with the updates, which isn't much by the way.

 

Thanks again!

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You're the one who becomes the loser.

 

We become demotivated, we forget what happened, we go on to other people who are more engaged with the forum.


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I really wouldn't wish upon my worst of enemies what has happened in the last few weeks, it was either I chased up a moped or paid rent by eating out of my limited savings, and seen as I couldn't do any heavy lifting anymore which is what my main job comprises of, I had to find another job which was not easy at all to be honest, not in my condition (I'm 'self-employed' which means if I don't show up, I don't get paid.) I even went to the Job Centre but they told me to start a new claim and to get any money takes upto 6 weeks which was ridiculous.

 

Anyways, now that is behind me, so far I must have gone to 10 solicitor firms but they all seemed way to confused to help me as it they couldn't figure out if this was Civil litigation or Accidents... The second I said I wasn't technically insured at the time... they show me the door (hell I even tried the no win no fee accidents firms...)

 

Previously I mentioned I never received an email from my insurer asking for a CBT, however, upon checking a few of the emails from them (confirmation of purchases) buried in 15 attachments to an email, one of them does request a copy of my CBT however does not state where I should send it to, nor does it say anything about a cancellation date if I don't – it even says not to respond to this email which is convenient.

 

(note: I have not until this day received an email or a letter from them regarding cancellation of insurance. The last email I received from them was regarding the purchase back in November, which the above attachment was linked to.)

 

I received a letter from the police asking me to complete a witness statement of what happened that day so I will fill that out and get that posted too.

 

BankFodder mentioned I should start by writing a letter to my insurance company but to be honest, I wouldn't know what to say. If I write the wrong thing they can use it against me later on I'm sure of it, seen as they'd be desperate to walk away from this and seen as no solicitor is willing to touch this case I need to tread carefully at this point.

 

I would like to pursue this for anyone else in the future to use as an example as it looks like I'm not the only one this has happened to but you can't find any sucess stories in detail either, so it would be good record keeping for anyone else later on.

 

To answer a few questions asked previously, I took out the policy on the 25th November, it was canceled on the 28th December, accident happened on the 5th of January. The insurance company is none other then [EM-SEA-EE] insurance.

 

Thank you!

 

PS: I can only respond during the day as I currently work evening and night shifts.

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Your complaint letter only needs to be simple stating your case based on your communications with the Insurers.

 

Something like this.

 

I wish to complain about the cancellation of my insurance and for the complaint to be formally registered for FOS purposes.

 

The first point to make is that i only discovered the cancellation when informed by the Police after an accident. I have not received any communications regarding the cancellation of the policy.

 

I have since been informed that the policy was cancelled because of non receipt of the CBT certificate and looking through the documents issued, this is mentioned on page 14 of the policy documents received. Never during the policy buying process was I informed of the importance of sending in the CBT within a certain timescale. Even on page 14 of the document,it does not mention this requirement, with the documents actually stating on page x that no action was required. This does not meet the standards required under FCA ICOBS which require customers to be clearly informed of all important information that they are expected to act upon.

 

My intentions are to place all information in front of either the FOS or a court, as i don't believe the way this contract was entered into and cancelled was done in a way that meets with the standards expected.

 

I await a full detailed explanation with copies of documents, covering the issuing of the policy, the administrative process leading up to cancellation of the policy and the actual cancellation of the policy.

 

In regard to any Police/court actiins regarding no insurance, it is important you keep documents explaining your point that you were not aware of the cancellation and are pursuing a complaint.


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I posted a reply on Tuesday but it seemed it never posted.......

 

Here is what I typed up based on the template you provided, please let me know if its any good:

 

To whome it may concern,

 

 

I wish to complain about the cancellation of my insurance and for the complaint to be formally registered for FOS purposes.

 

On the 8th of January I was involved in a traffic accident (of no fault of my own) which resulted in me being hospitalized. Whilst in hospital I was continuously asked about my insurance validity by the Police as nothing was showing on the MID. Upon given them the details of MCE Insurance, they informed me that you, MCE insurance, canceled my policy on the 28th of December without warning.

 

The first point to make is that I only discovered the cancellation when informed by the Police after the accident. Up until this day (23rd February) I have not received any communications regarding the cancellation of the policy in writing, by phone or by email.

 

I have since been informed that the policy was canceled because of non receipt of the CBT certificate and upon checking through all of the emails received, I discovered, buried in 15 attachments to an email, one of them does request a copy of my CBT however does not indicate where I should send it to, nor does it say anything about a cancellation date if I don't – it even reminds me, and I quote: “not to respond to this email.”

 

This does not meet the standards required under FCA ICOBS which require customers to be clearly informed of all important information that they are expected to act upon.

 

My intentions are to place all information in front of either the FOS or a court, as i don't believe the way this contract was entered into and canceled was done in a way that meets with the standards expected.

I was put into an enormous finical burden due to the cancellation of this policy, including loss of earnings, impound fees, recovery, storage fees and a total loss of my scooter.

 

I await a full detailed explanation with copies of documents, covering the issuing of the policy, the administrative process leading up to cancellation of the policy and the actual cancellation of the policy.

 

 

Signed Mr Mister.

Thanks btw UncleB :)

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Yes seems ok. Get it sent off by recorded delivery


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Yes seems ok. Get it sent off by recorded delivery

 

Hi,

 

Well I sent it of a few days ago and received a phone call last night from MCE, they left a voice message telling me they will phone back on Monday as they couldn't get a hold me.

 

The question here is, do I talk to the insurance company or get a solicitor involved? I know they record phone calls and I'm worried they may try to bait me into saying something or agreeing to something I shouldn't. At this point I think they will be very desperate to do anything to slip out if this to be honest.

 

All the advice I can get is appreciated.

 

Thanks again

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You can talk to them, recording the call if you can.

 

They might be phoning to say they made a mistake and will reinstate the policy.

 

Just stick to what you know on the phone. They did not ask for the CBT in a clear way and did not confirm the cancellation.

 

Get them to confirm in writing their response.


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OK, I finally got a call back from them today and here is what happened over the phone...

 

They said to me that on the 21st of December they sent me an email asking for a CBT, which is correct, as I mentioned in my main post, however, this request was in an attachment with no instructions on how to do so, also, no cancellation date mentioned - which is what the lady over the phone told me was written! But I just looked it over again and nothing!

 

They then said that on the 28th they sent me an email stating that my policy has been canceled they also said that on the same day they phoned me and left a voice mail! (they also mentioned they do not operate with postal mail and only use email/phones to communicate.)

 

Here is where it gets interesting.... I can prove I never received that email! No email is in my inbox/spam/trash or deleted folder and I won't have a problem asking a court to order Gmail to release that information.

 

I just phoned my mobile operator and they told me that they can not go back to December to check any incoming voice mails (if any) or any telephones numbers that attempted to call me. If I wanted that I would need to go to court and request for them to ask for this information. (its a simple pay-as-you-go sim so not a contract.)

 

The insurance company said they are not in the wrong however did offer me some money towards a new policy if I decided to take it out with them again.... How lovely.

 

What do you guys suggest I do now? I'm absolutely lost. Solicitors are telling me the want £400 just to look at anything I bring to them.

 

OK I have semi proof that they did not leave me a voicemail either... I just realized that everytime I get a voicemail I instantly get an auto text message telling me I have a new voicemail and I did not get any messages.

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Data Protection Subject Access Requests can be used to obtain data including documents from any company. You don't need a court order. So you can send such requests to the Insurance company, telephone company etc. These requests are sent to the compliance and Data Protection officers of companies. In the letters specifically ask for anything you want to see. They are more likely to provide than their customer service staff.

 

You don't need a Solicitor yet. Continue with the complaint and dig for information. Go to the FOS if necessary.


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Hey, I hope you guys could help me regarding something that has turned fairly serious for me.

 

Last year I was involved in a motorbike accident that left me in the hospital for two days,

whilst at the hospital the police attended and questioned my insurance policy.

 

 

They claimed I had no insurance at the time of the accident.

I assured them I did and gave them my insurance details.

 

 

They then came back to me and told me my policy was cancelled by the insurer,

claiming they failed to receive a copy of my CBT (which I have and sent them via first class post.)

I was cautioned by the police at the hospital and was discharged the following day.

 

A few days later I got in touch with the insurer who told me they left me a voice mail and also an email with a confirmation of cancellation of my policy.

 

 

Here is where it gets interesting, I KNOW they didn’t.

I had no voice mails from them and no emails regarding cancellation.

The last email I received from them was regarding my new policy and a copy of the certificate, followed by a reminder they need a copy of my CBT for their records, but nothing regarding cancellation.

They even gave me the dates they allegedly left both of them and NOPE, nothing.

 

(irrelevant to the matter in hand, the motorbike was stolen a few days after the accident.)

 

I sent the insurer a letter demanding they tell me all of the actions they took before during and after the cancellation of my policy. They called back telling me they did try phoning me a few times,

then left a voice mail followed with an email to confirm cancellation.

They then said they did nothing wrong and everything was done to procedure (clearly not.)

 

(relevant to the above, I believe there are regulations in place that tell insurance companies that any cancellation documentation MUST be sent via physical post - The insurer openly admits they do not operate via this method.)

 

After a while I simply gave up trying and just put it behind me, chalked it up to another life experience and moved on.

It was impossible to get anywhere with the limited resources I had as I couldn’t afford solicitation.

 

Fast forward 8 months

I get a letter from the CPS who decided to take me to court for not having insurance.

I thought nothing of it as I would simply argue my case to the magistrates and it shouldn’t be a problem.

I was WRONG.

I was convicted and received 6 points on my license and a £300 fine.

They even went as far as to say that I should have checked my insurance was in force EVERYDAY and that it was my fault that I didn’t!

 

I have now appealed the decision and the crown court is now set for February, and this is where I need all the help I can get.

 

As long as I can prove that the insurance company did not follow the correct procedure then I can win the case,

for this I would need to request all the documentation they have, voice calls and emails they claim to have sent via a S.A.R

however it is know for companies to give many people the run around regarding these.

 

I would preferably also like to request S.A.R’s from my telephone carrier and my email provider for further evidence.

I did try to look up the regulation that requires cancellation documents to be sent via post but couldn’t find it anywhere.

I’m sure this would aid me in my case.

Needless to say, the fact that the insurance company cancelled a policy due to an admin error is ridiculous.

 

all the advice I can get at this point is much appreciated as all the solicitors I approached wanted £400 a pop and £200 just to send out letters and this is something I can simply not afford I’m afraid.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

I really hope that I can win this just to slap it in the face of the insurer for the pain and agony they have caused me from day one.

I couldn’t make a claim for the accident and couldn’t even make a claim for the stolen bike.

 

 

It makes me sick that they could do this and casually get away with it so easily.

Sending the CPS after me with a smile was equally disgusting.

 

Thanks Again!

Edited by Ayma

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I would be interested to know if you find the procedure that you have referred to. I'm not aware of it – although I have to say that I find that is extremely reasonable.

 

I think that you should have a look at ICOBS. All insurance companies are regulated by the FCA and under the FCA regulations – ICOBS, they are required to treat their customers fairly. Especially relevant to you is a requirement that they do not cancel insurance simply because of some administrative failing or breach by you. Despite this rule, insurance companies routinely do this and quite frankly it is a scandal that nobody does anything about it because it means that people are – theoretically – left an insured and that means that not only are they potentially left breaking the law in a very serious way but also if they kill or injure anybody in an accident, then that victim is also left without any financial redress.

 

When insurance companies cancel and insurance on the basis of an administrative breach by their customers, then they are effectively breaking the law.

 

When did you send the SAR? When is the return date for the SAR? What date in February is the case scheduled for?


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Hi, thanks for the speedy response.

 

I haven't sent any S.A.R's yet, I wanted to word it correctly so they don't give me the run around as I have googled this and many of them send parts of the request etc etc. The date is the 2nd of February, it does clearly state that this date can NOT be changed so that is why I am on my toes at the moment. Many people get back their request after 50 days, and if they fail to provide what I asked for, then I'm screwed... again.

 

If I win this case then I will write up a detailed break down of everything for all to read up on for future reference. Searching on the internet shows that this happens to thousands of people and nobody gets anywhere with it, many of them take it on the chin and walk away but I refuse to!

 

What has happened here is genuinely disgraceful, and I will do everything in my power to not let them get away with it.

 

Thanks again!

Edited by Ayma

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