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    • No I haven't paid anything, even when they have said I am in arrears, I have managed to get them t back off - not sure how, but obviously not earning above the threshold and making various complaints about them...something obviously worked for a while.    So any advice as to what I can do now? 
    • dx, As requested:   Queries are made in red. Date of Statement: xx December 2019 Claim Number: XXXXXX Between: UK CAR Park Management Limited and XXXXXXX   1.    It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXX XXX.   2.    It is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the carpark is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant is the landowner. How do I check who the landowner is?   3.    If there was a contract, it is denied that the parking charge is incorporated into the contract. As per Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking [1971] 2 QB 163, the relevant term must be made known before a contract was formed. Here, the charge was not incorporated into the contract because [explain] – I assumed this means no contract was agreed?   4.    The amount is a penalty, and the penalty rule is still engaged, so can be clearly distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis which the Judges held was 'entirely different' from most ordinary economic contract disputes for the following reasons:-   a)    The Claimant has no commercial justification b)    The Claimant did not follow the BPA Code of Practice, allowing a MINIMUM grace period of 10 minutes. c)    The Claimant is not the landowner and suffers no loss whatsoever as a result of a vehicle parking at the location in question d)    The amount claimed is a charge and evidently disproportionate to any loss suffered by the Claimant and is therefore unconscionable. e)    The Court of Appeal for the Beavis case made a clear reference to the fact that their decision was NOT relevant to pay-per-hour type car parks.   5.    A parking ticket was purchased. However, after much difficulty. The Defendant made several attempts to initially pay for parking via telephone and the indicated telephone-based application, which were both declined by the claimant’s system of payment. The Defendant was attending a Drug and Alcohol (D&A) test based on the conditions of a new employer. The delay in obtaining a parking ticket caused significant delay. The Defendant was late to the appointment and was not permitted to leave the test until indicated by the examiner. Options made available to extend parking durations remotely did not function. Please refer to Attachment 1 – an email of complaint sent on the said day of apparent contravention (12th March 2018). My own wording. Is this ok?   6.    The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.  
    • send the new company an sar specifically asking for all the data they received from Solarplicity dx
    • I will scan up some documents, if anyone could please check over them for me and let me know if my assumptions are correct.
    • The link given in my previous  post has been updated. (ensure to have a good read and check the links given)   READ MORE HERE: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/thomas-cook-information-for-customers-employees-creditors-and-shareholders
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actionplan36

Thurrock council PCN for parking with faded/non visible bay lines

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I have been given a PCN for parking in council run car park, outside of a parking bay.

 

 

I wanted to know if I had a leg to stand on if I wanted to fight my case?

 

 

As you can see in the pictures attached

the bay lines are very faded and in most parts are completely invisible.

 

 

I have also taken a couple of shots of the rest of the car park to show how bad the entire car park is and how bad their bay marking are.

 

 

If anyone could offer any advice I would greatly appreciate it.

 

 

I have written to the council already protesting about the PCN and I am waiting to hear back from them.

Many Thanks

20161119_104331.jpg

20161119_104221.jpg

20161119_104354.jpg

20161119_104452.jpg

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Could you tell us who the PCN is from please?

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Thank you.

 

I'll move you to the local authority parking forum and leave a link for you to follow. The advisers should be along during the course of the day.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I think for the moment that you have done the right thing. Well done on taking the pictures. Many people don't bother but they look very convincing.

 

Come back here when you know the results of your appeal


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your soft appeal should include the photos and proof that you paid to be there (copy of ticket) If you are forced to take it to a formal appeal you will win as there is plenty of case precedent over markings that are far clearer than this. the council is having a laugh if they think that this will stick

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Hi Ericsbrother, yes I sent them the photos and also a copy of the proof of payment to be there (the ticket). I will definitely keep this thread updated with what is happening. Thanks.

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What was the contravention stated on the PCN? And do you have any images/info on the terms and conditions on the car park signs?

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OK, fine - so that would be the correct contravention for not being properly within a marked bay.

 

State of the lines is awful. I think you will win, but please post back if not.

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Hello everyone, I just thought I would keep you updated with what is happening. So after sending off the email with pictures, I got an automated response stating that they would get back to me within 10 working days. 10 working days has now passed so I called them up saying I have not heard back from them yet. Their response was: Them - A letter was sent to you on at the beginning of the week. Me - I have never received a letter? Them - Oh yes, you are correct, it was never sent as you didn't include your postal address in your email. Firstly, it never stated anywhere that I needed to give them my postal address. Secondly, what would have happened if I never contacted them myself? Would they have let it pass and then charge me.....even though they never sent me a letter out? Anyway, I have sent yet another email and no doubt will have to wait a while longer now to hear what their decision is. Just thought I would keep everyone up to date.

Edited by actionplan36

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Challenging a penalty charge notice

 

If you receive a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) that you feel is unfair, you can challenge it. Your PCN number, vehicle registration number and address must be quoted in all contacts. You can challenge using the online form or write to us:

 

https://www.thurrock.gov.uk/parking-enforcement/challenging-penalty-charge-notice

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I presume you quoted the PCN ref number so they know exactly who you are but are being bloody minded. In their defence though the driver may be appealing and that was not the keeper so confusion can be created.

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I presume you quoted the PCN ref number so they know exactly who you are but are being bloody minded.

 

They will have no idea 'who you are'. The PCN ref number will identify the PCN and therefore the contravention and VRM, it doesn't identify a person. Nor does an email address. No council will respond to an informal challenge (either email or postal) without a name and address.

 

It's not until they send the NTO having obtained details from the DVLA, that they will have any idea of the identity of the registered keeper, let alone the driver if t was someone other than the RK.

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my error, I has assumed that previous correspondence had already covered this point.

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Hello everyone,

 

I wanted to give you an update.

 

I have received a letter telling me that my challenge has been rejected. Most of the text is just a copy and paste job that they send to everyone (I'm guessing). They do have pictures that show my car on a 'T', but when you park....looking out your window.....what do I see both sides....empty space with no other markings? As you could see in my pictures at the start of this thread....most of the lines in the car park have vanished.

 

Do I fight this? 20161206_154317.jpg

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I have called up the Council's parking department and they have said I should receive another letter soon as I emailed them a question. Every time I ask a question it takes another 10 days to get a response. When I called I was asking to make sure I wouldn't be charged the full amount as the case was ongoing. They reassured me I wouldn't. I said that is good as I am waiting to hear back from my MP who has been notified about the situation. They then said "it has nothing to do with an MP, it's council business". Which I replied "I understand, but the council are not taking responsibility for the state of the carpark and are giving out penalties and to people who cannot see the bay lines. to be continued.......

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I don't know if anyone is following the thread any more, so this will be my last post. I have had another letter stating that basically they will no longer communicate with me and I have to pay. I have decided to pay the £25 so I don't get charged the full amount, but will continue to email them....every single week until they admit they are in the wrong and give me the money back as the whole thing is crazy.

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Looks like you've already decided, and paid up.

 

Their images show the lines quite a bit clearer than your images, so there's some doubt over how this might have ended up had you fought on.

 

In any case, really don't keep hammering it out. Now you've paid, just move on. As the council said, this isn't a matter for a member of parliament, and you've closed the case now anyway. It's not worth even more of your time and energy.

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I think it is worth the time, as the state of their car pack is clearly very bad. Terrible in fact. Anyone could park in the wrong place in there and they will get charged for it. It's not about the money, it's more about the principle.

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