Thurrock council PCN for parking with faded/non visible bay lines

[actionplan36]

I have been given a PCN for parking in council run car park, outside of a parking bay.

 

 

I wanted to know if I had a leg to stand on if I wanted to fight my case?

 

 

As you can see in the pictures attached

the bay lines are very faded and in most parts are completely invisible.

 

 

I have also taken a couple of shots of the rest of the car park to show how bad the entire car park is and how bad their bay marking are.

 

 

If anyone could offer any advice I would greatly appreciate it.

 

 

I have written to the council already protesting about the PCN and I am waiting to hear back from them.

Many Thanks

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Could you tell us who the PCN is from please?

 

My best, HB

[actionplan36]

Hello, it was from Thurrock council.

[honeybee13]

Thank you.

 

I'll move you to the local authority parking forum and leave a link for you to follow. The advisers should be along during the course of the day.

 

HB

[actionplan36]

Thank you very much.

[BankFodder]

I think for the moment that you have done the right thing. Well done on taking the pictures. Many people don't bother but they look very convincing.

 

Come back here when you know the results of your appeal

[actionplan36]

Thank you, I will let you know as soon as I have heard back from them.

[ericsbrother]

your soft appeal should include the photos and proof that you paid to be there (copy of ticket) If you are forced to take it to a formal appeal you will win as there is plenty of case precedent over markings that are far clearer than this. the council is having a laugh if they think that this will stick

[actionplan36]

Hi Ericsbrother, yes I sent them the photos and also a copy of the proof of payment to be there (the ticket). I will definitely keep this thread updated with what is happening. Thanks.

[king12345]

What lines are you talking about?

I can't see any line.

[actionplan36]

Exactly!

[Jamberson]

What was the contravention stated on the PCN? And do you have any images/info on the terms and conditions on the car park signs?

[actionplan36]

Hello, it was contravention 86. I do not have images of the carpark signage.

[Jamberson]

OK, fine - so that would be the correct contravention for not being properly within a marked bay.

 

State of the lines is awful. I think you will win, but please post back if not.

[actionplan36]

Hello everyone, I just thought I would keep you updated with what is happening. So after sending off the email with pictures, I got an automated response stating that they would get back to me within 10 working days. 10 working days has now passed so I called them up saying I have not heard back from them yet. Their response was: Them - A letter was sent to you on at the beginning of the week. Me - I have never received a letter? Them - Oh yes, you are correct, it was never sent as you didn't include your postal address in your email. Firstly, it never stated anywhere that I needed to give them my postal address. Secondly, what would have happened if I never contacted them myself? Would they have let it pass and then charge me.....even though they never sent me a letter out? Anyway, I have sent yet another email and no doubt will have to wait a while longer now to hear what their decision is. Just thought I would keep everyone up to date.

Edited December 2, 2016 by actionplan36

[Michael Browne]

Challenging a penalty charge notice

 

If you receive a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) that you feel is unfair, you can challenge it. Your PCN number, vehicle registration number and address must be quoted in all contacts. You can challenge using the online form or write to us:

 

https://www.thurrock.gov.uk/parking-enforcement/challenging-penalty-charge-notice

[actionplan36]

Fair enough, I did not see that part! Thanks for pointing it out.

[ericsbrother]

I presume you quoted the PCN ref number so they know exactly who you are but are being bloody minded. In their defence though the driver may be appealing and that was not the keeper so confusion can be created.

[Michael Browne]

I presume you quoted the PCN ref number so they know exactly who you are but are being bloody minded.

 

They will have no idea 'who you are'. The PCN ref number will identify the PCN and therefore the contravention and VRM, it doesn't identify a person. Nor does an email address. No council will respond to an informal challenge (either email or postal) without a name and address.

 

It's not until they send the NTO having obtained details from the DVLA, that they will have any idea of the identity of the registered keeper, let alone the driver if t was someone other than the RK.

[ericsbrother]

my error, I has assumed that previous correspondence had already covered this point.

[actionplan36]

Hello everyone,

 

I wanted to give you an update.

 

I have received a letter telling me that my challenge has been rejected. Most of the text is just a copy and paste job that they send to everyone (I'm guessing). They do have pictures that show my car on a 'T', but when you park....looking out your window.....what do I see both sides....empty space with no other markings? As you could see in my pictures at the start of this thread....most of the lines in the car park have vanished.

 

Do I fight this?

[actionplan36]

I have called up the Council's parking department and they have said I should receive another letter soon as I emailed them a question. Every time I ask a question it takes another 10 days to get a response. When I called I was asking to make sure I wouldn't be charged the full amount as the case was ongoing. They reassured me I wouldn't. I said that is good as I am waiting to hear back from my MP who has been notified about the situation. They then said "it has nothing to do with an MP, it's council business". Which I replied "I understand, but the council are not taking responsibility for the state of the carpark and are giving out penalties and to people who cannot see the bay lines. to be continued.......

[actionplan36]

I don't know if anyone is following the thread any more, so this will be my last post. I have had another letter stating that basically they will no longer communicate with me and I have to pay. I have decided to pay the £25 so I don't get charged the full amount, but will continue to email them....every single week until they admit they are in the wrong and give me the money back as the whole thing is crazy.

[Jamberson]

Looks like you've already decided, and paid up.

 

Their images show the lines quite a bit clearer than your images, so there's some doubt over how this might have ended up had you fought on.

 

In any case, really don't keep hammering it out. Now you've paid, just move on. As the council said, this isn't a matter for a member of parliament, and you've closed the case now anyway. It's not worth even more of your time and energy.

[actionplan36]

I think it is worth the time, as the state of their car pack is clearly very bad. Terrible in fact. Anyone could park in the wrong place in there and they will get charged for it. It's not about the money, it's more about the principle.