Noerthern Parking Services Pcn - Kenton Retail, Halewood Ave, Gosforth, Newcastle

[nh95]

Hi everybody,

I've been pointed in this direction by a reddit user for help relating to a Parking Charge Notice.

 

I took my car to my local garage to get an MOT check done on 01/09/2016.

The owner then drove the car to the MOT garage and parked it up inside and then returned back to his garage.

 

A few hours later I hadn't received a phone call yet to say it had been completed so I rang up to find out that my car was OK to collect.

 

I then made my way there and collected my car from the (private) parking lot less than 30 meters away from the MOT garage.

 

Fast-forward a week or so and I've received a letter in the post saying my car was broke the allowed parking period in the car park and I need to pay a fine for £100,

 

 

I replied to the letter stating the address of my local garage and to take it up with them

- I then received an email a month later saying that the time period had ran out and I had to pay urgently

- I reminded them that I sent a letter in the post some time later I received this response

 

I then replied with this email (1, 2) using a template I was advised to use.

I then explained to take this matter up with my local garage and the MOT centre.

 

I then received this.

 

What should my next action be?

 

I'm really not in a position to be able to afford £100 so close to Christmas.

 

My local garage has told me that they can vouch that I wasn't the person who drove the car there/parked it in the space.

 

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance

 

EDIT:

 

I now have a signed and stamped note from the doctors saying I was there when this incident took place.

 

I've managed to find my google location history showing the time I dropped the car off at my local garage and when I picked it up from the MOT centre, this is attached.

 

My local garage has said if it goes to court they will provide further evidence that I didn't have the car after 9am until

 

Also included text to girlfriend with date and timestamp. Omitted names etc for confidentiality

 

EDIT 2 - it turns out I cant include links or images, any idea on this first?

Edited November 16, 2016 by nh95

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

Thanks for the info so far but it will make things a bit easier if you fill this out for us.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket&p=4883055&viewfull=1#post4883055

[dx100uk]

its NOT A FINE!!

its a speculative invoice

 

 

thread title changed

[nh95]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

Thanks for the info so far but it will make things a bit easier if you fill this out for us.

 

1 Date of the infringement

 

01/09/2016

 

2 Date on the NTK

 

Unfortunately I can't find the original NTK however an e-mail from Northern Parking Services (the PPC) states it was dated 04/10/2016

 

3 Date received

 

As above

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012?

 

No but they have since referenced this act

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

 

Not that I know of

 

6 Have you appealed? Attempted

Have you had a response? I sent NPS information relating to the keeper at the time however I received no response from them. I had sent them the name of my local car garage as they had my car from 9:30am and then took it to an MOT centre where I reclaimed my car at 3:50pm.

 

I sent an email asking for an update on this and they replied saying that I didn't name a driver - just an organisation and this was insufficient and since more than 28 days had passed I was unable to appeal.

 

7 Who is the parking company?

 

Northern Parking Services

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

 

Kenton Retail, Halewood Avenue, Gosforth, Newcastle upon Tyne

[silverfox1961]

Northern Parking Services are minnows in the world of parking companies. From what I can find they issued just over 4000 tickets this year. That is tiny in comparison to others. They have taken court action with around 6 cases this year.

 

I would have said to ignore them initially but now that is out of the way, you are under no obligation to name an individual. You will have sufficient proof that you were not the driver at the time.

Get those statements from the doctor and the garage (if not done so) and keep them safe. Find the NTK. This is just in case they do take court action.

As NPS are members of the flawed IPC, you will never win any appeal to them or to the IAS so the chance to hit them where it hurts is likely to be through the courts (if they choose to go down that route)

You didn't park the car in the car park, a member of the garage staff did. You don't know who that was and I'm sure the garage can't remember who it was.

Your girlfriend didn't park the car so no liability exists to either of you. If NPS want to go further, they would have to go after the garage but of course they can't as it is far too complicated for them to bother with.

[nh95]

This is exactly what I'm hoping to do.

 

I already have a doctors letter,

google location history and text evidence to show when I dropped off and picked up the car.

 

 

My local garage (who took the car to the MOT centre) have said they will only provide evidence I was booked in that day if it goes to court (I'm assuming they want to keep their log view out of the legal eye unless absolutely necessary)

 

Unfortunately I keep reading the POFA 2012 and it regularly states that:

 

(The PPC must) "warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—

 

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified under paragraph © or (d)) has not been paid in full, and

 

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;"

 

Does that not mean that I need to be able to name the driver? Or am I reading too much into this?

Edited November 17, 2016 by nh95

[silverfox1961]

Yes you are reading too much into it. You have no idea who was the driver as the car wasn't in your possession at the time. They could try and make the keeper liable but I cannot see how they could ever make you liable.

Even the fact that the garage will only confirm that you were booked in is enough.

[nh95]

Thank you, I'm going to try and draft an email to send to NPS stating:

 

I have no idea who the driver of the car was or who parked it and it's unreasonable to suggest I can.

I don't see how I could ever be liable to pay this invoice.

I have attached relevant documentation (including, google history for dropping off and picking up car, MOT certificate, text message proof of collection and doctors note proving I was unable to park the car).

 

Is there anything else you think I should add?

 

Thanks again, you've been a great help

 

This was the last correspondence they sent - do you think it's even worth replying to?

Last correspondence.pdf

[ericsbrother]

You have tried to get sense out of them and they havent made any effort do my advice is to ignore them. There is no keeper liability, you have indicated who was driving at the time (up to them what to do with this information but they cant hold you liable) and as long as you have proof you sent an email/letter regarding this they cannot lawfully claim a penny from you.

So, let them waste their time and money barking up the wrong tree. If they threaten court action you already have a defence but it is more likely they will get a pet letter writer to sedn you scary letters sayingyou now owe £160 for reasons unexplained. Dont respond to those either, they ahve no authority to do anything other than waste their clients money on stamps.

Let us know if you do get any more correspondence so we can reassure you/warn you of its contents.

[nh95]

Thank you so much for the response!

And sorry for my formatting being a nightmare,

I'm not used to attaching images/documents in text

- I prefer hyperlinks

 

I was tempted to e-mail them just one last e-mail stating the facts, mentioning unreasonable behaviour as they have not considered an appeal. Then move on.

 

Perhaps adding that should they raise a claim, I am confident in my position and will counterclaim for a misuse of personal information - referencing Google v Vidal-Hall.

 

Just overall clarifying my position that I won't be paying - a long with providing them with the new information I have managed to receive (GP note, Google location history etc).

 

I'll take your advice though and just ignore it, I promise to keep you all updated. Thanks again

Edited November 17, 2016 by nh95

[ericsbrother]

dont bother, they will jsut think you are worried and may well them pay up if they keep on at you. You also stand a chance of saying the wrong thing and giving them the reason to make you liable by claiming that the driver was your "servant".

[nh95]

Hi all,

 

I've just received the attached s

 

Any ideas for best action?

 

Thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

Threads merged

Please keep to one thread

[dx100uk]

You can totally ignore dcbl they are not bailiffs in this case

[nh95]

Sorry for not updating this thread, I wasn't aware for the rule.

 

Thanks for the advice, I assume that they're just going to sound threatening? What is the future legal thing they're on about? Should I worry that they're actually on TV etc?

[dx100uk]

ah this is where you are being HAD you see.

 

 

DCBL might very well be high court bailiffs

but they are also Debt Collectors [A DCA]

a DCA [ or them acting under that hat]

carries NO BAILIFF POWERS

 

 

sadly a big read but will explain all

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?454888-dcbl-notice-of-enforcement-re-New-Generation-Parking-charge-notice&highlight=DCBL

dx

[nh95]

Hi,

 

I've had a similar issue going with DCBL over a PCN I received - I currently have a thread ongoing which you could view.

 

Since Ahew1910 hasn't yet replied to your questions I wonder if any of the information I have could help

[Bailiff Advice]

You have tagged onto a thread that is very old.

 

Could you start a new thread please.

[dx100uk]

existing thread is here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?471848-Noerthern-Parking-Services-Pcn-Kenton-Retail-Halewood-Ave-Gosforth-Newcastle

[ericsbrother]

standard threatogram. you can safely ignore this and any other letter from a dca. As said, the company may have a bailiffs's cert but they are just using this as a way of misleading you into thinking that they somehow have powers that they dont have in this matter. Let us know if you get any more lettes and who from, sometime it is prudent to respondbut not to this lot.

[nh95]

Am I right in thinking that I've massively overlooked the fact that the issuers name is on the MOT certificate

- surely this indicates the driver at the time?

 

 

I'll send a standard LBC to DCBL tomorrow with proof of delivery from the Post Office.

 

 

Furthermore I'll email NPS stating the issuer on the certificate and explain I'm disappointed common sense hasn't prevailed. Hopefully this works

[dx100uk]

no don't invite DCBL lettertennis

[nh95]

no don't invite DCBL lettertennis

 

Advice taken, do you think that providing the issuers name to NPS would resolve this issue?

[dx100uk]

for you poss yes you named the driver......

but it would leave him in the poo....

and fund their harassment of other though

 

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

why do you think this will do you any good?

 

 

DBCL have nothing to do with anything,

they are just paid to write letters, not read them.

 

 

they wont stop bothering you if that is what you think, they are paid to bother you so they will.

 

IGNORE THEM.

as for your other point,

it may help you jsut to say that the car was in the care of XYZ garage ltd

 

 

but if they deny they are at fault then you are still in the frame so it will ahve served no purpose

 

 

.

Am I right in thinking that I've massively overlooked the fact that the issuers name is on the MOT certificate

- surely this indicates the driver at the time?

 

I'll send a standard LBC to DCBL tomorrow with proof of delivery from the Post Office.

 

Furthermore I'll email NPS stating the issuer on the certificate and explain I'm disappointed common sense hasn't prevailed. Hopefully this works