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    • was her cr edit fi le shot anyway when she took this loan out?   dx  
    • in this instance DCBL are operating as mere powerless debt collectors, a DCA.   a DCA are NOT BAILIFFS and have  ZERO legal powers on ANY debt no matter what it's type.   if their client really had a debt in your name, they'd contact you themselves.   as long as they know your correct address it is safe to ignore silly threat-o-grams.   and tell the others that too.   dx      
    • Hello all.  I'm looking for some advice if I may.   I received a Notice of Debt Recovery dated 26th May from DCBL relating to an alleged debt of 71.08 that apparently I owe to East London Energy/Engie. The problem is, I don't recognise the debt at all and when I moved out of the property I lived in which was served by ELE/Engie, my account was all up to date as I pay by direct debt. I even left them with my forwarding address, which they still have on their records and the closing bill was sent to that address.   DCBL are saying that ELE have sent me correspondence about this debt that I've failed to respond to. But the first I have heard about it is the DCBL letter itself. It's totally flummoxed me.   Here's the problem though, ELE never, and I mean, never, answer their phones. I have called about 30 times, no word of a lie, every day since receiving their letter. Not once have I got through to someone. They're not responding to my emails either.    On the local residents group on facebook there loads of households moaning about the same thing. Lots of them have received these letters, some have managed to get through to speak to someone, some have been told it's an error, others have been told 'you owe the money, tough pay it'.   Everyone is complaining that they can't get through to ELE to speak to someone. I don't know what to do.   Apparently if I don'y pay DCBL by 10th June they will review my case for legal recovery. It all seems desperately unfair, especially when I was the one who was informing ELE when they messed up their billing or failed to take a direct debit. I'm scrupulous about my bills. If I genuinely do owe the money I would have gladly paid it, but I just can't understand where this alleged debt has come from.    Does anyone have any advice? I'm at a loss but really don't want to pay DCBL for this debt I have no knowledge of and their added administration fee. 
    • Hi all, I hope you are all well in this strange time? I'm trying to assist my cousin in a complaint that she has with the PDL Uncle Buck, and I've reached a stumbling block. Loan Amount:       £400 Charge for Credit: £350 Agreement Date: 05-Oct-2018 Disputed Balance: £276.79 From initial information I've seen it's been a comedy of errors with there administration side, but for her, misery. Original Payment schedule sent out to her started from 26.03.2019 - she questioned this. They never replied, so took it as that was 1st payment date. 7th Nov 18 she gets a Missing payment and a charge. Questions this, they adamant charge stands as it was a clerical error, she again disputes. 3 weeks of in arrears messages, they eventually agree to refund £15 - but now insist on I&E as she missed the payment - no change in circumstances. She asked for 3 days grace til payday. No reply.  Default notice issued. This eventually gets it self sorted and they missed payment was factored into the remaining. Dec 18 her fiancee passed away, no way to afford the payments & funeral costs until insurance settles  - UB continue to harass despite telling them the issues. Some how she finds the cash an pays something towards the balance, just to stop the harrassement. She loses her job in Feb 2019 - informs people she owe money to, that now on uni credit. UB state that if she pays x amount they can do a payment plan as she's already in arrears. I told her it's against FCA Conc regs, she emails them - nothing back. No chase emails / calls or anything till end Apr. Settlement offer - pay £355 and we will take care of the remaining balance of £535 she emails them to say she can afford £50 pcm based on the the settlement - they agree. August she gets a statement, remaining balance £235 - they had not used the settlement figure as this was to be paid in full only and also incurred missed payment charges(?) I write an email for her email requesting DSAR etc sent on 1st Sep - acknowledged 10th Sep - info sent through 10th Oct - Account was placed on hold from sept til receipt of DSAR. DSAR shows - comment of being financial difficulty, on UC, payment schedule - 9 call attempts, 4 CPA attempts (she requested this to be cancelled 2mths after taking out loan) list of charges and interest after being informed on UC and put into payment plan. Complaint goes off - complaint partly upheld - £235 still outstanding. Complaint again. Account on Hold again. Fast forward to Jan 2020 - Complaint still being looked into will have response within 6weeks.. Email received - Settlement remaining Balance £320 (they added further charges!) can do 40% settlement in 2 payments. Email goes back stating it's under investigation, would accept £150 settlement but over 5 payments. No reply. 21st Feb - Email Settlement remaining balance £276.79 - can offer settlement figure of 195 but require a payment of £55 within 3days --- this is still despite her being on UC and no reply to settlement. She replies - stating can not afford £55, can do £10 pcm to settle. - They accept, but the balance is now 266.79 and not the 195. No acknowledgement. Payment schedule issued for 10pcm totaling 266.79 -- questioned again - no reply or acknowledgement. March - she notices that UB is no longer on one of her Credit Reports. I told her to check Credit Karma & Totally Money - Both show that they are marked as "Settled"  £0 balance from 03/03/2020 So left it as that. May she gets a call from UB collections, chasing £266.79 as she's defaulted again on her agreement (note - they've never acknowledged any questions) - she informs them that as far as she and her credit reports are concerned she owes nothing. Also stated that even if she did - it should be written off, incorrect balances and reporting and as it's gone against CONC where they insisted on a Payment to set up a payment plan. Person raises a complaint on her behalf and said she is going to get the Credit reports amended as it was a clerical error. 26th May - Sum Of arrears notice " On 05-10-2018 you entered into a fixed sum credit agreement with us under which you borrowed £400.00 repayable by 6 monthly instalments. Your arrears under the loan agreement The opening balance (which is the total amount that is due and owing under this agreement) at the date of the previous Notice of Sums in Arrears (dated 26-11-2019) that we sent to you was £318.27. On this date, the payments that you had failed to pay when due under your credit agreement amounted to £259.29. We are required to periodically send you Notices of Sums in Arrears, at intervals of not more than six months, while you remain behind with the repayments due under your credit agreement. The balance now due under your loan agreement on the date of this notice is £266.79. The total amount of your arrears (the sums that you have failed to pay in full when due in accordance with the terms of your loan agreement) is £207.81" 29th May -  We acknowledge your complaint and are sorry to learn you are dissatisfied with our service. Uncle Buck Finance LLP T/A Uncle Buck (the Partnership) was placed into Administration on 27 March 2020. I confirm that Paul Boyle, David Clements and Tony Murphy of Harrisons Business Recovery & Insolvency (London) Limited were appointed Joint Administrators of the Partnership. They are licensed to act as Insolvency Practitioners by the ICAEW. They are bound by the Insolvency Code of Ethics when carrying out all professional work relating to an insolvency appointment. Today - Final Response:   How Uncle Buck understands your complaint You are unhappy that according to your credit file the balance of your loan had been settled and now you have been advised this is incorrect due to an error made by an agent. Our Investigation and outcomes  An email was sent to you on the 21/2/20 offering a settlement figure of £193.75 against your outstanding balance of £276.79 and that if accepted this would close your account. We advised that we needed a payment of £55.35 to hold this settlement offer. You responded to the email the same day advising that you were unable to take advantage of the offer and asked if we would accept your original offer of £10 per month. We responded on the 24/2/20 asking you to complete an income and expenditure form. This was sent back to us the same day. On the 25/2/20 we advised you that we accepted the offer of £10 per month.  You then responded with the date you would be making the payments, confirmation of this was sent on the 26/2/20.  You then queried the amount outstanding; Claire then spoke to you to discuss why the balance was not the £193.75 as this was a settlement offer. < She has never spoken to anyone about this. -- the person who raised the complaint said an email was sent out! As previously advised the agent who made you a partial settlement offer on the 21/2/20 made an error and added a code to your account which meant that your credit file was shown as partially settled. This has now been corrected. I apologise that this error was made and will be upholding your complaint.  However, I can not agree to write off the balance due to this error.   At no time did you receive correspondence from Uncle Buck advising that your balance had been paid.  You were advised on several occasions after this date what the balance was and a payment plan was agreed. Please contact our collections department to discuss the arrears on your account by the 11/5/20.  If no contact is made then collections activity will commence and your account will be removed from write only. This is our final response. Please note, any complaints raised to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS), will be directed to Harrisons Business Recovery & Insolvency (London) Limited.  They are no longer dealing with any complaints raised for the Partnership. And that's where I come to a block - they are saying that FOS will not deal with this complaint, really do not know what next steps are for her to get this resolved. Am I correct that they should not be asking for a payment to agree a settlement especially when someone has declared financial difficulty Any advice would as always be grateful  
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Company Wrongly Paying an Individual

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Hi All

 

 

Looking for some advice here re my son. I know there is a moral issue here, which I too feel, but I am looking for the legal standing. Its a bit of a strange one....

 

 

Ok so 18 months ago an individual from a national property sale and letting agency wrote to my son via email regarding a rental property, basically covering the state of the property and a maintenance issue. My son advises he thought this was a [problem]. My sons name is "Jacob", however the email was addressed to "John", so for me the individual has maybe got a character wrong in the email address and sent it to the wrong person.

 

 

My son replied to the email acknowledging the points raised, to which the individual again replied to my son. My son then asked the individual if he could alter the bank account and supplied them with an old bank account and sort code of his. He did not receive a reply from the individual.

 

 

So 2 months later a payment is made into his account, this has continued for over 14 months. Now sensibly my son hasn't spent this money he has left it in the account. the payments were made like clockwork every month up until 3 months ago when they stopped. My thought are either the company paying him or the individual who should have been receiving the payments from the company has noticed the error and the payments have stopped.

 

 

No word from my sons bank at all, and no contact by email from the individual at the company (in fact no contact from them for 16 months). Obviously due to data protection the bank cannot give my sons details to the company, but it is my belief that they cant say to their bank the monies were paid incorrectly as they weren't. I'm sure the company should have policies in place for them to confirm identities prior to making amendments on account like this.

 

 

Is it possible that as the company would not want this story making public that they have simply wrote this off to negate and negative publicity? As I say I understand the moral issue here but what is the legal stance? At what point does the money become my sons, is there a timescale? I have no control over what he does as he is an adult all I can do is educate him, I am adamant that should this substantial sum become his then he donates a large percentage to charity. He claims he will take the story to journalists and hopes to make a story from it.

 

 

If it was down to me I would email the individual at the company but he wont give me any details. I don't believe on the face of what he's telling me he has done anything legally wrong, I believe it is down to the company failing to carry out security checks. Can anyone help please

 

 

Many Thanks

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Since the money is untouched... Have you actually spoke to the company concerned?


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

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Since the money is untouched... Have you actually spoke to the company concerned?

 

Hi, no he advises me he hasn't

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Then that should be your first thing to do. Contact them and find out what they say.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

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Thanks renegade, that's exactly what I wanted to do, however my son is less than forthcoming with the companies details.

 

What would you be saying to them in reply? Thank you

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He claims he will take the story to journalists and hopes to make a story from it

[/Quote]

 

Probably unwise. My view (and I stand to be corrected) is that as the email was clearly sent to the wrong recipient, and that your son then asked for money to be sent to a different account might be construed as fraud. There would be a big difference between receiving the money innocently due to another's mistake over asking for funds to be diverted where he knew that there was no entitlement to receive them.

 

As for limitation? Probably 6 years from cause of action as per S.32 Limitation Act?


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I would be inclined to agree with sidewinder

 

It is one thing to accept and even spend money that is paid into your bank account by mistake but it is another to actually provide new details for the money to be paid into. I do not think it matters at all that the company concerned was wrong in contacting your son and not double checking the details

 

I am guessing that this could potentially be fraud by misrepresentation - which would almost certainly end up in crown court.

 

Whatever the outcome, if it led to a criminal record , it would cause a lot of problems for your son . So many things now ask if you have any unspent convictions, insurance, job applications, potentially going abroad.

 

If requested, the bank could be forced into revealing your son's identity

 

I do think in this case then contacting the firm concerned is the best policy - and keep records of anything you do


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Oh and as for limitations- there are no limitations if fraud is concerned


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Probably unwise. My view (and I stand to be corrected) is that as the email was clearly sent to the wrong recipient, and that your son then asked for money to be sent to a different account might be construed as fraud. There would be a big difference between receiving the money innocently due to another's mistake over asking for funds to be diverted where he knew that there was no entitlement to receive them.

 

As for limitation? Probably 6 years from cause of action as per S.32 Limitation Act?

 

Hi sidewinder thanks for your response.

 

I will certainly advise him against that. I agree that it does look like the email was sent to him in error, I don't feel however he has commuted any fraud. He has asked for bank details to be changed, he hasn't claimed to be someone else in terms of supplying false information etc. He believed the original mail was a s c a m or someone phishing. The company must be at fault in some way?

 

Appreciate it is a bit of a strange one

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Hi sidewinder thanks for your response.

 

I will certainly advise him against that. I agree that it does look like the email was sent to him in error, I don't feel however he has commuted any fraud. He has asked for bank details to be changed, he hasn't claimed to be someone else in terms of supplying false information etc. He believed the original mail was a s c a m or someone phishing. The company must be at fault in some way?

 

Appreciate it is a bit of a strange one

 

Hello there.

 

I'm a bit confused by this. Did your son have a property that was being rented out at the time he got the email?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Thread moved to General Legal Issues.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi HB no he doesn't have a property rented out. He tells me that he believed the email was a s c a m and only replied out of curiosity

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It really looks like he knows whats going on, has given you half the story and wants to keep the money for himself. A very bad idea. He needs to contact the company and find out what went wrong.

 

lets say he waits a bit, then spends it. Then a letter ends up on his doormat for the full amount, payable within 14 days or they go to court.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

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It really looks like he knows whats going on, has given you half the story and wants to keep the money for himself. A very bad idea. He needs to contact the company and find out what went wrong.

 

lets say he waits a bit, then spends it. Then a letter ends up on his doormat for the full amount, payable within 14 days or they go to court.

 

I have to be inclined to agree with you there may be more to this than he is telling me, it would be nieve of me to believe he had no ulteria motive. what would you advise putting in a response?

Thanks

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I have to be inclined to agree with you there may be more to this than he is telling me, it would be nieve of me to believe he had no ulteria motive. what would you advise putting in a response?

Thanks

 

Difficult to be definitive without seeing the emails, but I think the facts as you describe them here probably do constitute fraud by misrepresentation. I'm afraid I don't buy your son's explanation that he thought the email was from [problematic]: who would send their bank details willingly to fraudsters? And once it was clear that a payment had been made, your son should have realized this was not a [problem]. He knew the money being paid to him was not his, and having failed to act up to now, it looks like he's seeking to profit from his fraudulent.

 

So: come clean proactively with the company and pay them the money. And hope they do not report the crime and seek to press charges.

 

Does raise one question though: did the genuine beneficiary not realise that they weren't getting their money? Weird!

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I take your points and I'm shocked at how serious this could be interpreted. I asked the question re giving his details to potential spammers and he said it was an old account with no money in it so no harm could be done.

Is there a way he could approach this in such a way to negate any blame?

 

Ref the genuine beneficiary my thoughts were the same, possibly a very wealth individual who doesn't check their accounts

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I am guessing that this could potentially be fraud by misrepresentation - which would almost certainly end up in crown court.

 

 

I share your concern of a criminal offence.

 

It would be fraud by "false representation", though (not "misrepresentation")

 

Misrepresentation is a tort (a civil wrong), but although it is "wrong" it isn't deliberate. Because fraud requires intent, fraud and "misrepresentation" are mutually exclusive since one is deliberate and the other can't be deliberate!.

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BazzaS what would be your suggested course of action? Thank you

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BazzaS what would be your suggested course of action? Thank you

 

I'm not going to suggest anything that others haven't already suggested.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/section/2

 

Fraud by false representation

 

(1)A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and

(b)intends, by making the representation—

(i)to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

(2)A representation is false if—

(a)it is untrue or misleading, and

(b)the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

(3)“Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—

(a)the person making the representation, or

(b)any other person.

(4)A representation may be express or implied.

(5)For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).

 

So, the email with the new bank details creates a misleading implied representation (that the details of the new bank account are that of the person entitled to receive the rent).

Your son knows that is a misleading implied representation.

Dishonesty is assessed using the parameters of a case (R v Ghosh), and it would be hard to say that either he didn't think it would be dishonest OR that he didn't think that reasonable people would not consider it dishonest, if they come looking for him before he returns the money admitting what has happened.

 

Clearly there is a risk of exposing another to a loss.

 

So, contact the company and ensure the money is returned. Then he can claim he never intended to be dishonest : there might still be a prosecution, but

a) if prosecuted it introduces both

i) mitigation if convicted,

ii) a possible defence, and

b) it may mean he completely avoids prosecution.

 

The fact it went on for 14 months might be tricky to explain, unless he can say it was an old account and he didn't realise ....... that may not sit too well with him having supplied that account's details, though!

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Ok thanks for the effort on your reply. If he can't get back in touch through to the company by replying to their email should he contact his bank and make them aware?

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Ok thanks for the effort on your reply. If he can't get back in touch through to the company by replying to their email should he contact his bank and make them aware?

 

Both.

 

Even if that email address doesn't get a response he knows who the company are anyway?.

 

If he doesn't get a rapid response from the company get the bank to return the money as a mistaken credit.

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The genuine recipient will no doubt already be asking where his money went, a little digging will reveal the account it was paid into and the emails will show false representation as described by Bazza above.

I think this is a time bomb for your son which will at some future point explode in his face, with potentially devastating consequences.


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Use the email first and see if that gets a response.

 

I suggest he simply tells them they have credited money to his account and it's available to be reclaimed as it's been paid in error.

 

I would not offer any explanation, excuse, reason, etc at this stage.

 

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Thanks all. I suppose the only hope is that the individual who sent the emails and dealt with this has deleted the emails to cover their tracks and save their back side, just with it being 2 months since they have made a payment and no news wrong his bank or the company this just seems like an excessive amount of time.

 

I will certainly take you advise and contact the bank and the company tomorrow.

 

I don't suppose playing ignorant and saying he didn't send the emails would work would it. I know he's obviously still received the monies but would willingly give this back?

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I don't suppose playing ignorant and saying he didn't send the emails would work would it. I know he's obviously still received the monies but would willingly give this back?

 

At this stage, there's no need to do anything other than arrange for the money to be returned.

 

We can deal with matters as and we they unfold.

 

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