student oyster card prosecution

[wizard23]

Darkhiatus and havingabadday same case here. Any news??? Any useful advice??

 

Thank you

[honeybee13]

Hello HavingABadDay and wizard23, welcome to CAG.

 

Sadly some caggers don't come back here to update us with what has happened and if there's been no reply for a week, then there may not be.

 

I suggest that you start your own threads here and tell us your story, so we can advise.

 

My best, HB

[wizard23]

Hello HB,

 

I have a question (mostly out of curiosity)

 

What is the exact process from the time the case goes from the inspector to the prosecutor and when you get a letter.

 

My current understanding is.

 

1. Inspector interviews you

2. Writes a report, making a first suggestion and submits it to the prosecutor.

3. Prosecutor reads the case and has a final say

4. Letter sent out.

 

This is very summarised. Do you know the exact process? (and please correct me if my understanding is wrong)

 

Thank you!

[Old-CodJA]

Pretty much correct although in most cases it is not always a prosecutor who reads the report first, it may be a data input clerk who is trained in these specific matters and who will generate a letter advising you that there are grounds to prosecute and will seek your explanation

 

Once your reply is received a prosecutor will review your response and the evidence in the report and then make a decision

 

Timescales are not exact either, the TOC has up to 6 months from the date of commission of the offence to 'lay the information' before a Court.

 

That means they have six months to apply for a Summons and in rare cases (very busy Court times after extended correspondence between defendant and the TOC) it can be as much as 8 months from time of offence to Court hearing date.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Old-CodJA

[wizard23]

Hello Old-CodJA,

 

Thank you very much for the reply!

 

When you say data input clerk does that mean they just input the notes that the inspector took during the interview into a computer system and then the computer decides whether to prosecute or not? Or is it the data input clerk that decides whether there are grounds for prosecution?

[BazzaS]

I read it to mean that:

a) a clerk (rather than a prosecutor) generates a letter if their training suggests that from the report there may be a case to answer.

b) the letter says that they are considering prosecution (not that they will prosecute, but they may) and asks for comments

c) a prosecutor then makes the decision based on the report and the reply to the letter.

[Old-CodJA]

Exactly correct, thanks for such a clear explanation Bazza

[wizard23]

Thank you very much for the explanation and clarification.

[wizard23]

Hello Old-CodJA and BazzaS.

 

My girlfriend has finally received the letter from tfl they usually send to everyone (it seems like a template - i am very sure you know which letter i am talking about) and she is really stressed.

 

I would like to know your opinion on:

 

1. What extra could we do apart from replying to the letter?

2. The letter is dated on the 24th of April but we were on holidays until today. The 10 days have passed. Should we call them and explain?

3. Is it worth seeking professional legal advice? (she used my student oyster)

4. If you get this letter is there any chance you wont get a criminal record?

5. They have spelled her name wrongly. Does it matter?

 

Thank you very very much once again.

[firstclassx]

Hello Old-CodJA and BazzaS.

 

My girlfriend has finally received the letter from tfl they usually send to everyone (it seems like a template - i am very sure you know which letter i am talking about) and she is really stressed.

 

I would like to know your opinion on:

 

1. What extra could we do apart from replying to the letter?

Nothing really except keep a copy of the letter and send it Special Delivery Next Day - pronto!

2. The letter is dated on the 24th of April but we were on holidays until today. The 10 days have passed. Should we call them and explain?

As above, get an apology letter to them promptly!

3. Is it worth seeking professional legal advice? (she used my student oyster)

Probably not. If it goes to court she'd have to plead guilty anyway. A sincere apology, spoken in court will mitigate the sentence.

4. If you get this letter is there any chance you wont get a criminal record?

Only if they agree to settle out of court, but considering that you are late in responding PLUS the pass being misused is taxpayer funded, it will be near impossible IMO.

5. They have spelled her name wrongly. Does it matter?

No. It is probably in her interest to address that issue in her apology letter. If/when it gets to court, the prosecutor would simply be allowed to amend the details.

 

Thank you very very much once again.

 

Response above. Make sure the apology letter is sincere, contains only the facts and explains how a conviction could affect her future.

[Old-CodJA]

Response above. Make sure the apology letter is sincere, contains only the facts and explains how a conviction could affect her future.

 

Can I second firstclassx reply. There is little if anything you can do at this late stage, but try

[wizard23]

Hello firstclassx and Old-CodJA

 

Thank you very very much for all the advice.

 

I have called the number on the letter and i have asked for 2-3 more days. I have promised to send the letter on Monday and they have said no problem as her case has not been reviewed yet.

 

In the worst case scenario that she gets a criminal record what kind of a criminal record is it? A fine?

 

I don't know if you are aware (you probably are) but the rules have changed and now criminal records that took 5 years to become spent now take 1 year.

 

Google "criminal records spent 2013" - unfortunately i cant paste a link.

 

Does that mean that from now on tfl prosecutions will become spent in 1 year?

 

What are the effects on her life? She is studying for accounting (ACA) which is a professional qualification. She is very worried about that - will that prevent her from ever becoming an accountant?

 

Thank you very much!

[firstclassx]

£200-£400 fine, £100 costs, £20-£40 Victim Surcharge.

 

Becomes spent after 5 years according to the government.

 

https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/planning/Pages/convictions.aspx

 

As far as I know, the government has not amended the time it takes for convictions to become spent. There are (were) proposals though.

[wizard23]

Hello firstclassx,

 

The goverment has amended the time is takes for convictions to become spent i think.

 

Google "criminal records spent 2013" you will read all the news about it from BBC, Guardian and government official websites

 

Below is an extract from CriminalRecordJobs website

 

The timescales for spent convictions are changing in April 2013 due to the enactment of The Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 (LASPO) which received Royal Assent on 1 may 2012.

Under the previous law, the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, the maximum timescale was 10 years before a conviction could become spent. This has now been reduced to 4 years however it will start from the completion of the sentence rather than the date of conviction.

 

Justice Minister Lord McNally said:

‘First and foremost, criminals must be suitably punished for their crimes. But it is no good for anyone if they go to jail and come out and then can’t get an honest job and so turn back to crime again.

‘That is why we are bringing forward reforms which will give offenders who have served their sentence a fair chance of getting back on the straight and narrow, while ensuring safeguards are in place to protect the public.’

This aims to help ex-offenders get their life back on track sooner and will mean that they can exclude the convictions from job, insurance and mortgage applications much sooner. However all offenders will still always have to declare their previous convictions when applying for jobs in sensitive workplaces like schools and hospitals or working with vulnerable people. The most serious offenders will continue to have to declare their record for the rest of their lives when applying for any job.

Forthcoming changes to spent conviction timescales below:

 

Sentence(custodial sentences include licence period) Current adult rehabilitation period, starting from date of conviction New adult rehabilitation period, starting from end of sentence. (with maximum total period of sentence and rehabilitation) Current youth rehabilitation period, starting from date of conviction New youth rehabilitation period, starting from end of sentence. (maximum total period of sentence and rehabilitation)

Absolute discharge 6 months None 6 Months None

Fine 5 years 1 year from conviction 2.5 years 6 months from conviction

Community order 5 years 1 year

(4 years) 2.5 years 6 months

(3.5 years)

0-6 Months 7 Years 2 years

(2.5 years) 3.5 years 18 months

(2 years)

6-30 Months 10 Years 4 years

(6.5 years) 5 years 2 years

(4.5 years)

30 Months – 4 years Never spent 7 years

(11 years) Never spent 3.5 years

(7.5 years)

Over 4 years Never spent Never spent Never spent Never spent

These changes are welcome news however they still mean that anyone who received just a fine will have to declare it for 1 year. Therefore we recommend considering if self-employment or starting a business may be of benefit to you.

[firstclassx]

Not really something I concern myself with usually, but:

 

Section 139

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012

 

Does indeed amend the spent periods.

 

The end of the period of 12 months beginning with the date of the conviction in respect of which the sentence is imposed

 

Still needs to be declared for things like USA/ New Zealand Visa applications etc though, as far as those governments are concerned, they never become spent.

Edited May 8, 2013 by firstclassx

[wizard23]

Hello firstclassx ,

 

Thank you very much for the confirmation. One last question:

 

What does it actually mean when the criminal conviction becomes spent?

[firstclassx]

It means you don't have to declare it, unless the organisation claims an exemption, (like foreign governments, or certain jobs like working in the police/care homes etc), after the expiry of the conviction, i.e. it becomes spent..

[wizard23]

Thank you very much!

 

What happens if you declare it for a US visa for example? Do they reject visas for minor offences? (i believe its a minor offence please correct me if i am wrong)

[firstclassx]

Thank you very much!

 

What happens if you declare it for a US visa for example? Do they reject visas for minor offences? (i believe its a minor offence please correct me if i am wrong)

 

Anyone with ANY conviction, will be automatically refused an ESTA and will have to apply for a full tourist visa, which is a lot more expensive and certainly time consuming. This is not a minor offence, the circumstances of the incident amount to fraud by false representation, although the summons will be for intentionally avoiding payment. The US embassy will want full details of the circumstances to judge whether the person wanting entry is someone they would want to visit their country.

 

Travelers with arrests/conviction(s)

 

We do not recommend that travelers who have been arrested at anytime attempt to travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program(VWP); they are required to apply for visas before traveling. If the arrest resulted in a conviction, the individual may require a special restricted visa in order to travel. The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to United States visa law. Therefore, even travelers with a spent conviction are not eligible to travel visa free; they must apply for B-1 or B-2 visas. If they attempt to travel under the VWP, they may be refused entry into the United States.

[wizard23]

Thank you very much for all this info! Is this for all the countries or is this just for the US?

 

Will this last for the rest of her life or will it be erased after some time?

[firstclassx]

Rest of life unfortunately, unless the US change their admissions policy. They aren't bound by the EU laws.

 

Most countries where you need a visa, (so generally outside of the EU), will ask about convictions. May not refuse you a visa, but will probably invite you to an interview or ask you to provide further information in relation to the offence.

[BazzaS]

Hello firstclassx ,

 

Thank you very much for the confirmation. One last question:

 

What does it actually mean when the criminal conviction becomes spent?

 

Once spent, it need not be declared to prospective employers UNLESS the employer notes that the post is exempt from the provisions of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Legislation.

 

In practice, if convicted, if she needs an Enhanced CRB / DBS, it'll likely be a post exempt, and the conviction will need to be declared.

[wizard23]

Hello firstclassx and BazzaS,

 

Thank you very much for all this useful info!

 

She says she might not bother sending them a letter as from here it seems like they prosecute anw so she says she sees no point bothering.

 

What is your view on that? i have told her its a very bad idea...

 

Rest of life unfortunately, unless the US change their admissions policy. They aren't bound by the EU laws.

 

Most countries where you need a visa, (so generally outside of the EU), will ask about convictions. May not refuse you a visa, but will probably invite you to an interview or ask you to provide further information in relation to the offence.

 

Hello firstclassx,

 

Does this article suggest that spent convictions will now show up for 11 years in the enhanced CRB check?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21942544

 

Thank you very much for your advice!

[BazzaS]

There is no harm in sending a truthful and sincere apology.

 

What is the worst that could result? A prosecution, which (based on what you have posted) might well happen anyway and would likely result in a conviction (or guilty plea).

 

So, a letter might not make a difference, but it might : if not sent : it definitely won't make a difference!

[wizard23]

Thanx BazzaS,

 

What's the difference of a conviction and a guilty plea?