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Evening

I was issued with a PCN a few weeks ago for no 25 parking in a loading bay,,however, this is a more complicated story

 

1)There are 3 time restricted parking spaces outside our flat complex Mon-Sat , parking limited to one hour between 8.30am-6pm and no return for 2 hours. This is fine as many residents use the spaces outside of these times. It has been parking spaces for over 10 years

 

2)There is a catering shop opposite the flats that has a loading door and about 18 months ago they had a white line painted across the loading bay doors. Again this was fine and the shop closes at 5pm and 3 parking spaces remained the same

 

3)Two weeks ago we noticed that one of the residents was issued a ticket on a Friday morning and the traffic warden pointed out that its now a loading bay,,the council had now painted "loading area" horizontal to the end of the white line for the catering shop

 

4)There are no other changes to the 3 spaces, no new signs and the same 8am-6pm parking restrictions so we assumed it was a misinformed traffic warden and guess what, yes I got a ticket myself at 10.27am on a Saturday after 6 mins observation..Now I should of maybe got a PCN for parking for over an hour (I slept in) ;-) but it was a infringement 25 loading rule!

 

5) So, the council responded to my appeal (Council Parking Officer)who totally disregarded my concerns and said new rules mean "loading area" painted on the floor is sufficent and there is no time restriction so its 24 hours,,so why is not stated 24 hours anywhere and why should I know the Dept Transport new rules and given a resident using these spaces for years how would we assume the change if no-one warned us. Even the catering shop is not happy as 4 customers have had tickets so it seems the council have just used this as cash cow opportunity and I have not yet been offered to appeal through an Independent person?

 

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I'm afraid I can't answer your queries, but parking experts should be along soon. As it's the weekend, it could be later or otherwise tomorrow when they can get here. Please bear with us until then. :)

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Whilst councils can, and do, alter existing restrictions, in order that they are enforceable, they must amend any existing Traffic Regulation Order.

 

On the basis that they've merely had 'Loading Only' put down with no accompanying bay signage, it's possible they've neglected to do this. TRO's cost councils quite a lot of money to introduce.

 

You need to ask the Council for the TRO relating to Elms Road.

traffic.management@rushmoor.gov.uk

 

Some councils will email a copy, otherwise you are entitled by law to be able to view them at the councils offices

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Thanks Michael. I have asked them for this information. In regards to the penalty charge . The discount period has been extended 14 days from the council reply and rejection of my appeal. How do I extend this further or seek independent review?

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You can't extend the discount period, and as for an independant review, what would that consist of?

 

It's simple - it's marked as a loading area, so you can't park there. As stated above, there needs to be a legal basis to it, so there is a small chance there is no Traffic Order in place - take a look and do so before the 14 days is up. Then you can decide to pay the discount, or not, if the Traffic Order is lacking.

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. How do I extend this further or seek independent review?

 

You can only appeal to adjudication after rejection to a formal appeal made once you have been sent the Notice to Owner, by which time the discounted penalty is gone.

 

The only grounds I can see (if the TRO for the new loading bay exists) is that you've lived there for x years, the bays have always been 1 hour parking bays, you assumed that the 'Loading Only' referred to the white line covering the adjoining catering company Loading Bay especially since there was no accompanying loading only timeplate for that end bay and therefore is very misleading.

 

Whether an adjudicator would agree would be very risky.

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You can't extend the discount period, and as for an independant review, what would that consist of?

 

It's simple - it's marked as a loading area, so you can't park there. As stated above, there needs to be a legal basis to it, so there is a small chance there is no Traffic Order in place - take a look and do so before the 14 days is up. Then you can decide to pay the discount, or not, if the Traffic Order is lacking.

 

To note, I was parked in the bay and not on the white line

 

To note, I was parked in the still marked parking bay and not on the white line where we assumed the writing related to is

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Loading bays often have the wording outside the boundary of the bay like this. Because the lettering is parallel to the end of the bay, and not parallel with the long white line, I don't think you would win on unclear markings. As far as I see it, your only hope is that it's not covered in the Traffic Order.

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Loading bays often have the wording outside the boundary of the bay like this. Because the lettering is parallel to the end of the bay, and not parallel with the long white line, I don't think you would win on unclear markings. As far as I see it, your only hope is that it's not covered in the Traffic Order.

 

My issue is that it still a parking bay. No markings have changed and the parking bay restrictions on the sign have not changed. The white line has been there over 18 months and the painted writing only 4 weeks

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I understand, but how long it's been there isn't going to win an appeal. You need to find out whether it's defined (and therefore enforceable) as a loading space from the day the PCN was issued or earlier.

 

If it is, regardless of when it changed, then the PCN is legit. If it isn't, you can get it overturned.

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My issue is that it still a parking bay. No markings have changed and the parking bay restrictions on the sign have not changed. The white line has been there over 18 months and the painted writing only 4 weeks

 

From new TSGRD 2016:

 

Broken links between signs and markings

 

3.17 In order to minimise sign clutter, and allow greater flexibility, the mandatory links tying together upright signs and road markings have been removed. The exceptions are mainly those requirements linking signs, signals and road markings at signalised junctions and crossings.

3.18 An example of where it might be appropriate to place only an upright sign or a road marking could be a ‘loading only’ restriction that operates at all times. Traffic authorities might consider that a bay marking on its own is sufficiently clear to the motorist, without an upright sign. The same principle could be applied to any restriction that operates at all times and with no exceptions. The reverse could also apply and upright signs could be placed without a road marking, although in the case of the above 'loading only' restriction, some physical characteristics, for example build outs or planters, would be needed to be provided to clearly show the extent of the signed restriction.

 

The way this is going forward, in few years time all they'll have on regulations is that "Since the motorists passed driving tests, these signs/legends can be hidden as the motorists are expected to looks for one or other form of restrictions on any part of the country. These were already a part of driving theory tests."

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