HSBC - Idem response after CCA Letter

[Pearlyj]

Good afternoon

 

I have today received a response from IDEM after sending them a CCA letter regarding a HSBC credit card

 

They have sent me a reconstituted copy and statement and their letter says that this is all they need to provide and that the debt once again becomes enforceable.

 

There is nothing enclosed that shows my signature. is this now enforceable without the signature and if not what should my next move be

 

Many thanks

[dx100uk]

depends when you took it out

 

 

can you scan up the return to ONE multipage PDF please

after redaction?

[Pearlyj]

Hi there

 

I will scan it up on Monday as my scanner only does one page at a time. If memory serves it was taken out 8 or 9 years ago if that helps

 

Many thanks

[dx100uk]

scan to jpg

redact

then convert to PDF

easiest way is put all the pictures in a multipage word doc [one per page]

then file save as pdf

 

 

apr 2007 is the key date.

[Pearlyj]

OK I will scan the document later but when you say Apr 2007 is the key date can you elaborate

 

Many thanks

[dx100uk]

typically before that date they have to have a signed agreement

although online sign up had been around since the early 2000's

 

 

a non signed agreement might mean compliance with the consumer credit act

if certain prescribed conditions are met

it wont be good enough for court

idem are wrigglers

[Pearlyj]

Hi there

 

I am having trouble scanning so will scan as one whole document when I have access to a proper scanner on Monday and post it then

 

Many thanks

[Pearlyj]

Also what do you mean when you say it won't be good enough for court, sorry to keep asking questions but Im not understanding if its not good enough for court then what is the use of it

 

Many thanks

[Pearlyj]

Ive uploaded the document now, hope the clarity is good enough

 

Many thanks @dx100uk

Combine Result.pdf

[fletch70]

A few things that spring to mind

 

This agreement looks like it is pre 2006 as it shows default charges of £20 and these changed. Did they also send you another revised set of terms and conditions?

 

A S77 request is for a loan an while a S78 request is a credit card although I doubt their mix up is important.

 

I see it tells you how much to pay but it doesn't seem to tell you when to pay or even how you will be told when to pay.

 

With regard to dates

Digital signatures became valid in 2005 ,before that they needed written ones

 

With regard to Apr 2007

Prior to that the agreements had to have all the prescribed terms which are set out in legislation and include names and addresses , Apr , how the credit limit will be determined and payments made. After Apr 2007 sadly these are not necessary, the fact you used the credit and made payments is enough.

 

With regard to requiring a signed agreement

You would need to make a positive statement that you did not sign the agreement with the prescribed terms and it would help if you could give reasons . The judge than makes a determination on balance of probabilities and it is not unheard of for a judge to decide there was a signed compliant agreement even if one can not be produced.

 

A lot will depend on what else if anything they sent you,

[Pearlyj]

Hi there

 

They haven't sent me anything else at all. There is a date of 06.07.06 printed at the bottom of some of the paperwork. I am wondering what to do next or more importantly what they will be able too do legally going forward

 

Many thanks

[fletch70]

They can do or at least try to do whatever they want including issuing a summons.

 

I am not sure where this guy got the specifics of regulation 2 being explicit but again I don't think his typo will be important.

 

If it were me I would write back saying simply that the documents they have sent do not comply with the requirements of S78 cca you might want to add if they could provide a link to back up their claim they do not need to be an exact copy although it is true they do not need to be an exact copy.

 

Others may tell you to simply ignore and stop making payments.

 

How much do they claim you owe?

[dx100uk]

is your name and the correct address for the times on the agreement and the 2 copies of T&C's?

[Pearlyj]

I cant see any dates apart from the printed ones at the bottom of the pages

[fletch70]

Sorry I didn't see all the extra copies of terms and conditions and while they maybe there two points

1 I can see no mention of default fees anywhere other than on the original document

2 Back in 2006 most if not all credit card providers allocated payments to the lowest interest rate first I.e cash advances would be last. On the original recon that is not the case so you would need to search the Internet for copies of agreements from 2006 and see what they say.

 

Sorry I am on an iPad so struggle to look

 

I still suggest responding with a this doesn't comply letter .

 

Have you stopped payments?

 

As Di says, is the address on the recon the correct one for 2006

[Pearlyj]

I have stopped payments. With regards to the date there are no dates on any of it at all apart from in the headers and footers. If this is the date we are talking about then they have quoted an address that I didn't move into until 2 years later

[dx100uk]

lets narrow this down....

 

 

from the PDF you uploaded:

 

 

pages 2 to 7:

 

1. there is no dates showing at all?
   
2. but there IS an address showing on page 2
   
3. is this the correct address for when you took the card out?
   

 

 

Pages 8 - 17

 

 

4.no name and address on page 8?

 

 

 

 

pages 18-24

 

 

5.no address on page 24?

[Pearlyj]

lets narrow this down....

 

 

from the PDF you uploaded:

 

 

pages 2 to 7:

 

1. there is no dates showing at all?
   
2. but there IS an address showing on page 2
   
3. is this the correct address for when you took the card out?
   

 

No dates at all and the address is one that I only moved to in 2008

 

The only dates apart from the november date of this letter are in the headers and footers and that date is 06/07/06 and if this is correct then the address they quote on page 2 is wrong as I didnt move there until 2008

Pages 8 - 17

 

 

4.no name and address on page 8?

 

There is no name and address on page 8

 

 

 

 

pages 18-24

 

 

5.no address on page 24?

 

The address on page 24 is the address I live at now which definitely wasnt the address at the time

[dx100uk]

then it be bog roll taken out from various filing cabinets

[Old Cogger]

In plain English:-

[Pearlyj]

 

Good morning

 

Do I need to respond to them

[dx100uk]

No current wisdom is you don't tell them

See how it goes

[Pearlyj]

Thanks dx100uk

[fletch70]

After reading all of the document I would agree with do and ignore my previous opinion.

Just one question for clarity

 

The address on the first recon document which is page 2 I think . I am assuming that is your present address and not the address you lived at when you took the card out.?

 

If they send a LEtter of claim or letter before action you must respond to that. As for now there seem to be so many flaws with what they sent they have little hope.

[Pearlyj]

Hi Fletch70

 

The address shown is not where I lived when this was taken out and since then I have moved again

 

Many thanks