Jump to content

 

BankFodder BankFodder


hollysmum

Hoist/? Claim Form - old husbands HSBC OD 'debt'

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 1016 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Good afternoon!

 

I wanted to share with you the experience I have had following my sending a complaint to the FCA about Hoist Portfolio Holdings 2 and Howard Cohen.

 

The latter two have been pursuing my husband for a debt that doesn't belong to him, and HPH2 lodged a claim against him via the Court in Northampton.

 

Because he is recovering from cancer and a serious heart attack,

I have had to take over trying to deal with all this.

 

The original debt was with HSBC, an overdraft apparently, and was sold on to MKDP, then on to Hoist, who are now seeking a CCJ.

 

I reiterate that it is NOT my husband's debt,

he has never had any sort of account with HSBC, ever.

 

This fact formed his defence, of course, that and the fact that the debt appears to be statute-barred, regardless of who it might belong to.

 

We are now waiting to hear what is to happen next.

I was so angry about the whole situation that I decided to write to the FCA,

thinking, naively as it turns out,

that they would be able to investigate Hoist, at least, and give them a good legal thrashing and tell them to leave us alone.

Hah! Was I wrong?!!

 

I got a letter back from them which repeated mine to them almost word for word, and then it said that Hoist are no longer recognised by the FCA,

are not subject to their regulations,

therefore they can do absolutely nothing about them.

 

They very helpfully pointed me in the direction of my local Citizen's Advice Bureau.

I was gobsmacked

- what's the point of the FCA if they can't investigate the conduct of a debt-buying outfit who have caused the two of us so much extra worry and upset?

 

I doubt we're alone - judging by the threads on this Forum,

there are thousands just like us.

 

If the FCA is this ineffectual,

who can I contact who might be able to actually do something?

 

I already feel better having offloaded on all you good CAGGERS!

Thank you all. Catherine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry but I agree with them

Not for the fact they can't investigate

But that there's nothing for them to investigate

 

A Dca or more correctly you or I ,has no more powers than us

Can issue a CCJ if they think they are owed money by someone

 

Your issue here should have been one of sending requests like a CPR before you entered your defence and prove them wrong

 

HSBC bought HFC. Midland bank and a whole host of old banks

So it could be one of those

 

So did you solely defend on statute barring or you mixed something in, diluting the power of SB?


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Threads merged yet again

 

Who said to complain anyway

Concentrate on the claim and crush them there in court

 

So where are we up to now?

 

Is the claim stayed or you got notice of allocation and you've done that too?


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, dx -

the debt is not my husband's debt

- the first he knew about any of this was when the Court letter with Hoist's claim arrived in September.

 

There had been absolutely nothing at all before, no notifications, threatograms, nothing.

He has never had any sort of account with HSBC,

he's never had anything from MKDP from whom Hoist seem to have acquired the "debt".

 

He has been extremely ill, as I pointed out,

most recently from a massive heart attack, brought on by the radiotherapy he had for cancer,

and this Claim business was just the straw that broke this camel's back.

 

"How can this happen?" is what he said to me when we realised that we had no choice but to respond to the Claim or a CCJ would be entered against him regardless of whether the debt was his or not.

 

The situation at present is that we sent off his defence, on the form sent with the Claim.

We received another set of forms back from the Court telling us that Hoist are taking this down the Small Claims Track, so that has been filled in and returned, and copies forwarded to Hoist and Howard Cohen.

 

I sent all of it via Signed For post (hubby's choice to use post instead of online!).

Looking at the Royal Mail tracker was quite funny,

as neither seem capable of legibly signing anything

- the Hoist ones are blank, with just the post man having marked it "Delivered" and the Howard Cohen ones have literally squiggles that are supposed to say "Michael McDonnell".

 

I should add that I did phone the Court in Northampton to ask advice as to how to fill out the most recent form, and to advise that I have had to take over dealing with things, as my husband is not fit, physically or mentally, to do so.

 

I've advised Hoist and Howard Cohen of the same.

We have never received anything at all from Howard Cohen or Hoist

- I did send requests asking for proof that the debt is my husband's,

and also proof that the debt is NOT statute-barred,

whoever might be responsible for it.

 

As I said, absolutely nothing has been received,

only acknowledgements from the Court in Northampton, as I would expect.

 

Forgive me for not using the reference numbers for the various forms

- I've not got the paperwork with me at my desk today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you return the directions questionnaire to the court you mentioned they wanted back by 14th November ?

 

Just follow the process. At some point before any court hearing they will have to prove the debt is your Husbands and is not statute barred. So you should get something from the claimants Solicitors in due course or they realise they have got the wrong person.

 

You could contact the claimants Solicitors asking for the full name of the debtor, date of birth and the addresses of the debtor that HSBC Bank have on their records, as you believe the claimant has got the wrong person due to a faulty debtor search. It won't be the first time that a debt collector has traced the wrong person and issued a court claim.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, Unclebulgaria - thank you very much for your reply.

 

 

Yes, we returned the directions questionnaire, so we are just waiting for the next "move".

 

 

I will draft a letter to Howard Cohen as you suggest

- to us, it is clearly a matter of the DCA having got the wrong person,

and it was really the fact that it is not my husband's debt,

and his serious illness, that made me see a dark shade of red and write to the FCA when we realised that someone was actually trying to take the poor man to court over something that was nothing to do with him.

 

 

It just added to all our worries. Thanks again - I will post again if anything else happens. Catherine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you find that they have traced the wrong person and they have caused distress, then follow Howard Cohens complaints process and go to whatever regulator they are responsible to. They should compensate for their mistake. Ask Howard Cohen for a copy of their complaints process when you write to them.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, that's brilliant! To be honest, I'm not especially bothered about compensation, but I do want to make a point, so will bear this in mind, UncleBulgaria, once the sorry process has been played out. Thank you so much. Catherine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Compensation can lift the spirits as a moral win. Plus if people don't complain then these companies are not worried by mistakes and how it affects people.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, indeed, to both points!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

have you not already send a CPR 31:14 then?

 

pers I would not be writing to the claimant

other than a CPR

 

has the POC got an account number in the text


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi again, dx - yes, we sent that off pronto after receipt of the Claim. There is a partial number on the Claim form, but most of it is "XXXXXX".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so no reply to CPR?


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nope, absolute diddly.

 

Wait to see what Bankfodder suggests tomorrow before sending letters.

 

But i wonder whether getting them to confirm details they have of the debtor ( full name/dob/addresses held) might just reveal mistaken identity or if the details match provide HSBC account information that would allow you to make enquiries with HSBC.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to go back to all the paperwork, I think, check out the alleged account number and see if HSBC can shed any light.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm trying to understand the entire story.

 

I understand that you are being sued for an HSBC debt which may be dated 2010 or prior to that and which is not yours.

 

I understand that the claimants are Hoist – but I'm not sure where Howard Cohen stand in this because I've seen them mentioned somewhere.

 

I understand that you have filed a defence but I don't know exactly what the defence is. I see that a statute barred defence was suggested to you but I saw no suggestion there that you should also deny the debt on the basis that it was not yours. You should be aware that there is a principle when drafting defences that anything which is not denied, is taken to be accepted.

 

I also noticed that it was suggested that you file a defence on MoneyClaim but you chose not to.

 

I've seen no discussion here as to who has made the mistake. I see no suggestion here that you make a subject access request in order to find out a little bit more about what precisely is going on.

 

I would very much appreciate it if you could post up PDF copies of the claim and also of the defence that you have actually filed. You should remove any identifiers before you do so.

 

I also think that it is essential that you find out what has gone on. From this thread it seems to me that you do not understand the background to this error and that at the moment you are simply relying on a bland denial with no evidence. Although it is up to the other side to prove their case, it will be very helpful if you can find out the cause of the error because that will help you – and eventually it may well help you to win some compensation on this because I think that you are being seriously troubled by it all.

 

On this basis I would send a subject access request to the HSBC bank, to the claimant, and if you can explain what Howard Cohen's involvement is then also to them. It will take 40 days to return the information and it's a great shame that this wasn't done right at the outset in September because you would have everything you need by now. I think you should do this now.

 

I'm very interested that the FCA apparently has said that they cannot investigate Hoist because there no longer regulated by the FCA. I think we need to question this. Do we know that hoist actually owns the debt? Even when a debt is sold on, all that is sold on are the rights under the contract. However, the duties under the contract still remain with the original creditor. I'm also fairly certain that under the Conduct Of Business – COBS – which includes BCOBS, there is an express provision that third parties which are acting on behalf of firms which are regulated by the FCA carry the same legislative responsibilities as their Principal. We need to check this out and find the source for this. If this is correct then the FCA are in error and they have a duty to deal with the matter. However,I have never been aware that the FCA actually carries out investigations of individual complaints – so maybe you could let us know a little bit more about how you complained, who responded and if it is in writing maybe you could post up a PDF of that as well please.I would cynically expect that if the FCA is made to accept that they are third-party duties under the COBS rules that then their position would be that they don't investigate individual complaints. No matter,because if we can confirm that the FCA rules apply to 3rd parties then that effectively gives you a right of action against third party as well as against the principal. It's all a bit complicated but it is all useful stuff.

 

We need very badly to know where the error has occurred. You might find that the error is not Hoist at all but in fact it is the HSBC bank which supplied them with incorrect information. If that became the case then I would think about joining them as part 20 defendants in a counterclaim.

 

All of this is speculative and I'm simply playing around with ideas and it is difficult to know exactly how to approach it until you have the basic information – and the most important information – which is whose error is this and how has it come about.

SARs and original documentation today please.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello, Bankfodder! Firstly, I need to say that, because this is the first time ever that either me or my husband have been the subject of any sort of court action, when we saw the Claim from the Courts Centre in Northampton, our very first thought was to respond as quickly as possible to ensure that no CCJ was made against my husband unfairly.

We did submit a defence - the debt is not his as he has never had any sort of account with HSBC, the original creditor.

In fact I think that is precisely what we wrote on the form.

 

We sent off a request to Howard Cohen, who purport to be solicitors and are acting on behalf of Hoist, a CPR 31.14, immediately. The names that appear on the claim are Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd, having been assigned the debt by MKDP LLP (ex HSBC).

 

The name Michael McDonnell appears alongside that of Howard Cohen Solicitors.

 

Again because we were so thrown by receiving this Claim totally out of the blue, it was a couple of days before I sat and looked far more thoroughly at the Particulars of Claim, and noticed the dates.

It stated 17/09/2010 as the point from which the debt had accrued. The date of the Claim was 19th September 2016, and therefore six years had passed, and I felt that it was possible that, whoever was responsible for this debt, it was now statute-barred.

 

With my husband's agreement, I wrote to Hoist, the Court and Howard Cohen to this effect.

I should point out here that the reason this has been done by post is because that is how my husband wanted it to be done - he is not especially confident online, and, dare I say, is not especially trusting of doing things online! All correspondence from us, immediately following receipt of the claim, was despatched Signed For on September 26th - 53 days ago now.

Nothing at all has been received from either Hoist or Howard Cohen. He never had a Default Notice, prior to that no threatograms or other correspondence about this alleged debt.

 

I am inclined, like you, to believe that it is a case of them having got the wrong person. I have pointed out previously, simply because it is relevant to us, that my husband has suffered two very serious illnesses in the last 18 months, cancer followed by a massive heart attack, and I think that this has also influenced how we reacted to the Claim arriving - it was just one more thing to worry and upset us.

 

Quite possibly we haven't reacted in the very best possible way, but we have at least lodged his defence, submitted the CPR 31.14, and have pointed out at every possible opportunity that this is not his debt, and that it is believed to be statute-barred, regardless.

 

That's another thing - we asked Howard Cohen/Hoist to provide us with evidence that it is NOT statute-barred, and this has not, so far, been forthcoming.

 

I've also had to inform all parties that I am now acting on behalf of my husband because of his state of health. Because I am at my desk at work, I don't have any of the correspondence/Claim with me to upload today, but I can do my best to do that on Monday.

I'm thinking, having read your post, that I should try and make contact with HSBC to ask about this, and determine what might have gone wrong.

There is a partial account number on the Claim, in the format XXXXXXX1234. I will also prepare an SAR for HSBC/Hoist/Howard Cohen - there can be no harm in doing that, presumably?

I very much appreciate your response.

Catherine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please will you make sure that your posts are properly spaced. It is very difficult to read a solid block of text. I have done it for you this time.

 

I'd like to see the original documents please. Also please start keeping a detailed log of how this has all affected you – both in terms of any expenses to which you have been put, time that you are taking to deal with it, and also any stress or physical impact it is having on you or your husband. This log needs to be detailed and kept up to date.

 

By all means contact whoever you think you need to contact for better information. I doubt whether you will have much joy with the bank but maybe by contacting Howard Cohen with a polite and explanatory letter, you may be able to elicit more information. Point out to them that you have had no response for evidence that the claim is not statute barred and point out to them that you want to be a cooperative as possible because you feel that there is definitely mistake and you hope that they will reciprocate in the same spirit. Tell them that you are fully aware that they won't be able to give you any information without reverting to their clients but the you hope that they will point out to their clients that they could easily be an error here and it needs to be sorted out in order to save time and trouble and further damage to anyone.

 

By all means write the bank but I doubt whether it will draw much information. By all means write to Hoist but you will probably get the same kind of response.

 

However, make sure you send the SAR's. Don't be tempted to simply send letters and then to hold off sending the SARs in case everything can be dealt with reasonably and voluntarily. This is most unlikely. Send the SARs simply to get the process going. It should have been started long time ago. Now that I understand Howard Cohen's position, don't bother to send them an SAR so that means that you only have to send one to HSBC and one to Hoist. Make sure that you send the SARs accompanied by cheque – not a postal order – because it will be easier to keep track.

 

If you do contact the bank, then I think that the approach you need to take is that you are starting a formal complaint and that you want to go to the ombudsman. Of course, it would be extremely funny, won't it, if they try to say that you're not a customer and therefore there not able to deal with you or they're not able to disclose any personal data to you. It would be very helpful if you record your calls.

 

Please start having a look at the FCA website. You will be looking at their conduct of business sourcebook which will include the BCOBS rules, the COBS rules and the CONC rules. It's not a lot of fun but you want to go through and see if you can find out where it talks about third parties carrying the FCA responsibilities if they are acting on behalf of an FCA regulated firm. You should be searching on third parties, outsourcing – but you should look generally.

 

I think that in the CONC rules, roundabout 7.1 something, there are references to this kind of thing.

 

Are you not able to upload anything this evening or over the weekend?

 

Also look around for any references to assignments of rights. I think you will find that it all refers to assignments of rights and never of duties. You don't need to become familiar with it all, but you need to have an understanding of the underlying attitude and principles to it all. That will help you a great deal. Make notes or take extracts of relevant parts – but make sure that you remember where they come from.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is so helpful, BankFodder, thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I do keep a diary, as it happens, and have recorded what has happened in respect of this Claim since it arrived, and have kept receipts for the postage etc.

 

 

This sounds so lame, but at home we only have a laptop, no printer or scanner or anything, so if we ever need to do either of the latter, I bring stuff into work, hence now having to wait until Monday, but I will be preparing the SAR and searching for the COBS, BCOBS and CONC rules you mention. I agree that a well-worded letter to Howard Cohen might be more fruitful than trying to get anything out of HSBC!

 

 

My thanks again, it's very much appreciated. Catherine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buy a scanner. Go to PC World and you can buy a scanner. You can buy an excellent one for less than £50 http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing-accessories/printers-scanners-and-ink/scanners/canon-canoscan-lide-120-flatbed-scanner-10029719-pdt.html which will last you for several years.

 

We are giving you thousands of pounds of free legal advice here. Buy a scanner. If you aren't able to respond quickly and provide us with the information you need then you put yourself to more trouble and more importantly it becomes harder work for us as well. I suggest that you go to PC World and buy a scanner today. You have it set up by tomorrow morning and you can scan everything you need. The information that we need here should be scanned in multipage single document PDF files. It's very easy.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

don't forget

read the full SAR

 

if your husband has lived at any other addresses in the last odd 20yrs list them ALL in the sar request

and don't forget to include a copy of your CTAX bill proving who/where he is now.

 

and it needs to be signed.

 

just do it as if you is he no need to say anything about representation

 

what I find strange about this claim by hoist is its obviously been done by selection

hoist or more correctly Hoist Portfolio Holdings 2 Ltd

who purchased the mkdp and their portfolios

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?448531-Hoist-Portfolio-Buys-MKDP-Etc-Compello-Group

 

very small amount

statute barred

bank overdraft


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, dx - I'm going to read through the SAR info at lunchtime. He's got two previous addresses from the last 20 years, and I have, of course got CTAX bills - they are all in my name, though (I retained my own name when we married) - he is on the electoral roll, though.

 

 

I have to say I wondered why Hoist thought it worth their while to pursue anyone for the amount they're claiming, but then, loads of people on the CAG site generally report being taken to court for even smaller sums!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well they hope for a default uncontested rubberstamped judgement where nothing is checked

 

usually on amounts this small

they would look at the communication that was sent out

and if everything has been ignored then they'd file a claim hoping for the above to happen

 

very cheap to do - some 750'000 claim forms are issued every year

so its a numbers game.

 

whats surprising here is you had no previous willy waving

but the claim form came to the correct address

 

which smacks that hoist thought that all the previous letters must have been sent to the old one

or not at all

or another person...that's my guess

that you are correct, your hubby's never had an HSBC/HFC/Midland bank account and its an admin error by their computer system or some office junior!!


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed, dx!

 

He's absolutely adamant that he's never had any sort of account with HSBC.

 

We've been at our current home for more than five years,

and he certainly never had anything from either HSBC, MKDP or anyone else at our previous home.

 

I shall fire off a SAR, and continue to sit and wait and see what happens next.

I'm now trying very hard not to laugh out loud (in my office) at the "willy-waving"!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...