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Anniemaniac

Parking Eye £100 PCN 10 minute overstay. Two Saints, Lancs, **WON AT POPLA**

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I was at a privately owned retail car park a few weeks ago in the evening and overstayed by 10 minutes

 

 

. Firstly, I am not the registered keeper; it is my mother's car.

She had sent me out for a Mcdonalds for her and we ended up having an argument over the phone.

I stayed in the car park for a while before going home so we could both calm down.

 

 

My mother has schizophrenia so she can be VERY difficult to deal with and very irrational and demanding, hence why I didn't want to go home.

 

 

Result is, I overstayed in the car park by a whole 10 minutes and 14 seconds.

This particular car park gives you one hour free parking, after which you have to pay £2 for an additional hour if you wish to stay longer.

 

Today my mother received a parking charge notice from Parking Eye for £100, reduced to £60 if paid by 8/11/2016.

 

 

This is two days before I get my wages so I can't afford to pay anything until the 10/11/2016 when I get paid,

 

 

I will be liable for the full charge.

It's in her name though and they state they don't know who the driver is.

They say not to name the driver in the template appeal letter I found

but I don't want them dragging my mother to court

or sending her letters as she's ill and disabled

and can't cope with stress without becoming ill.

 

But I feel that a £100, or even a £60 charge is excessive for 10 minutes.

A whole hour would have only cost me £2 had I had the frame of mind to remember to buy a ticket/realise how long I'd been there.

 

 

I can't afford to pay such a high charge and I don't at all believe the landowner lost this much money by me being there for 10 minutes.

 

My question is,

can I appeal this on excessive charges claims?

I've done some research of my own about this

but I've read a court case where Parking Eye successfully won after taking someone to court because the car park this person was issued a parking charge for had a 1 hour free stay.

 

 

The judge ruled something about the landowner not making a profit in any other way from their car park and hence the charge was considered commercially justifiable and the person had to pay the parking charge.

 

 

I don't want to be dragged to court for £100 and potentially have other charges added on top of a heap load of stress put on me.

 

 

I have my own mental health issues (depression/anxiety) so I can't cope with

 

Any advice? I really can't afford £100 for a 10 minute over stay.

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'Privately owned Retail Park' is the carpark private too?

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Yes, sorry for lack of clarity - yes the car park is privately owned, and managed by Parking Eye.

Edited by Anniemaniac
clarity

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Dont do anything yet. I presume you had a ticket on your car? Then sit tight as you have to wait for the NTK through the post. Then you can play with them> They get the paperwork right, but they get almost everything else wrong.

 

Others will be around to expand on it, but its safe to say you wont have to pay a single penny.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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No ticket - only received letter through the post, addressed to my mother who is the registered keeper.

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Do NOT pay the fine Annie, have a look at some of the Parking Tickets on private land threads, they are unenforceable.

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Sit tight and people will be around to help. If nobody come sin a day or so, then we'll flag the thread for them to come look.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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do not pay the fine annie, have a look at some of the parking tickets on private land threads, they are unenforceable.

 

 

its not a fine!!


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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write and appeal

use anything you like

 

 

dog was a long time in the macy'ds toilet

 

 

you want the POPLA code.

 

 

that will cost them more money

but await the NOTICE TO KEEPER FIRST


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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How big of a battle am I looking at if I appeal?

 

 

As mentioned, I have my own mental health issues and on top of that I'm my mother's carer and I work part time as well so as unfair as I find this charge to be, if it's going to take months of back-and-forthing then I might just suck it up and pay it because the cost to my mental health would be greater if this will turn into a long, nasty battle.

 

If I did appeal, could I claim commercially unjustifiable as a reason?

As I said, this car park gives you one hour free, which I used.

 

 

I stayed an additional 10 minutes and that's what the parking charge is for.

 

 

However in my research I came across a case where someone was taken to court by Parking Eye for failure to pay for additional time after staying the free hour given, and the court ruled in PE's favour stating something about as they don't make any money from that car park except when people over stay, that it was commercially justifiable or wasn't extravagant or unconscionable and thus they were owed the money they were asking for. I think this was the Barry Beavis case.

 

This seems a very similar case to mine; free parking for an hour, overstayed by 10 minutes, now they want £100.

 

 

I still think that £100 is absolutely insane amount when I would have only had to pay £2 to stay an additional hour, but given the case above,

 

 

I'm concerned that appealing on the grounds that £100 is too much wouldn't work, but this is the only argument I have. I'd be happy to pay a reasonable charge like £20 but £100 is going to REALLY leave me struggling.

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but since then they given 10mins grace and anyway we don't know if they own the site

if the signs at enforceable

 

 

wont take anything to write a simple letter.

 

 

can you fill this out please

and name the care park so we can check things

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket-(1-Viewing)-nbsp


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Date of the infringement - 15/10/2016

 

2 Date on the NTK - date of issue: 25/10/2016.

 

3 Date received - 28/10/2016

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? Yes

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes, two time-stamped photos; one showing front license plate with arrival time, one showing back license plate with exit time.

 

6 Have you appealed? Not yet

Have you had a response? N/A

 

7 Who is the parking company? Parking Eye

 

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Two Saints Car Park, Ormskirk, Lancashire

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. The only mention of appeals is that they will provide details of POPLA if my appeal to them is unsuccessful. However the letter has a BPA Approved Operator logo on the top of the letter.

 

but since then they given 10mins grace and anyway we don't know if they own the site

if the signs at enforceable

Is this true of all private car parks? From what I could see from the sign, there was no mention of any grace period and it said tariffs apply 24 hours a day.

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its global not part of T&C

 

simply appeal

 

this is an ANPR capture anyway

so theres that issue to deal with too, not fit for purpose

 

send an appeal as I detailed

don't use any real reason or play your cards yet

you are after the POPLA code and to cost them the money involved in using POPLA


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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OK for starters

get the keeper to name you as the driver and then PE will have to spend money sending out another letter to you or they lose any right to claim a bean.

 

 

DO not use the NTK, make them work as if they dont get it right they get punished..

Then send your appeal as the driver to PE, wasting more of their time and money.

 

 

They will be obliged to issue a POPLA code.

You can then appeal on the stronger grounds of triviality, ie 10 mins is within the allowed time to return to your vehicle and exit the car park.

 

 

It is parking that is limited to an hour, not faffing around in the car park.

They only clock the vehicle entering and leaving so cannot prove you breached a parking contract that allows a discretionany element anyway.

 

If you want help with this we will need to know who owns or leases the land, so is it a retail park or single store?

You mention Maccyd's, is there a drive through section?

If so queueing for your dinner isnt a parking event and so no valid claim against you.

 

It all takes time to beat these ludicrous charges so patience and some nerve is needed.

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I have no idea who owns the land.

 

 

Tried googling it to no avail.

 

 

Any ideas how I could find out?

 

 

And it's a retail park.

There is no drive through at the Maccys.

 

 

I went in, got the food, then sat in the car for about an hour to cool down from the argument.

 

 

My mum has a blue badge so I'm not used to buying a ticket there and just completely didn't think to get one nor did I realise how long I'd been there.

 

I'm also confused because I've read a lot of things which say you should never name the driver, and you're saying I should name the driver so I'm not sure what to do now.

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I have drafted up an appeal letter - am I allowed to post it here and if so, will anyone be willing to read it for me and see if it's okay or if I've made any mistakes?

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Hello Annie.

 

Yes you can post up your appeal letter, just leave out anything that would identify you. I'm sure the guys will check it for you. :)

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Thanks HoneyBee. I will be sending my appeal online so I have only included the main body of my appeal and none of the specific vehicle or driver details. I have no idea if either of the reasons I gave are valid or not, either. There's a lot of information about these PPCs and their charges and the more I read, the more confused I get about what's what.

 

Here's my appeal:

 

"I received today a parking charge notice for the above vehicle.

 

I will not be paying the charge as I believe it is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable. The amount you have charged is not based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner. In this case, the £100 charge you are demanding far exceeds the cost to the landowner of £2 for an additional hour. I therefore feel the charge is excessive.

 

Furthermore, the BPA establishes that a grace period of a minimum of 10 minutes must be applied. As ParkingEye is a member of the BPA, and as the driver was within the grace period, the charge should therefore be cancelled.

 

If you choose to pursue me as the registered keeper, please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter. If you reject this appeal, I expect further correspondence from you to include a POPLA code as I will be taking this matter further if necessary."

 

Is this a suitable and appropriate appeal letter? Let me know if it doesn't make sense/contradicts anything because this is a hash up between my own wording and a template letter I found online. I know dx100uk suggested I not supply reasons for my appeal yet but I'm hoping to get this over and done with as soon as possible and to be honest, I didn't know what else I could say in my appeal otherwise.

 

Edit: Also, the maximum allowed stay is 3 hours. As I did not exceed 3 hours, could this be reason for appeal as well and should I include it or not?

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Also,

I read on another forum that the wording of 29 days is in breach of schedule 4 of the POFA?

 

My letter states

"you are warned that if, after 29 days from the date given

(which is presumed to be the second working day after the Date Issued),

the parking charge has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver,

we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you.

 

According to the other forum, this is in breach of the POFA

because POFA states 28 days and PE state 29 or something like that?

Some one said the parking charge was invalid because of this error?

Can anyone confirm/clarify this?

 

If it is invalid, does this mean I can appeal on those grounds?

Will the charge be dropped?

Apologies if I've completely misunderstood this;

 

I have dyslexia and understanding everyday language is hard enough let alone this sort of complex wording.

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minimum 28 days so they are allowing you a days grace for the post. If they want they could say that if they arent told within the next 5 years it would be lawful, the law stipulates a minimum time, not a maximum.

 

As for your letter, dont send it, send a much simpler one saying that as they are members of the BPA they should apply the MINIMUM 10 minutes discretionary period and cancel the ticket as the alleged breach is "de minimis". (use this legal term) As you dont want your mother to be involved you should write to them in the capacity of the driver (make that clear) and then they are breaking the law if they continue to write to the keeper. Doesnt matter if it is the same postal address, it is the capacity of the person that is important.

I would always send a letter and not use email or they will have a method of harassing you for free. Get a proof of posting free from the Post office and they cannot claim non-arrival of letter.

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Thanks ericsbrother! Here's a revised version:

 

"My mother received today a parking charge notice for the above vehicle. She is the registered keeper but I was the driver at the time of the event. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reason:

 

BPA establishes that a discretionary period of a minimum of 10 minutes must apply. As a member of the BPA, ParkingEye should therefore cancel the ticket as the alleged breach is de minimis.

 

If you reject my appeal, I request any further correspondence from you to include a POPLA code as I will be taking this matter further if necessary."

 

Is this better?

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I really recommend that you do not mention that it is your mother and dont say you wont be paying but say that you are appealing because....

Also dont tell them how to do their job, if they dont formally tell you about POPLA they cant sue you if you dont pay.

In short keep any content of any correspondence to the minimum and keep it formal so use the third person when talking about yourself so say "the driver" rather than "I" and "the keeper" rather then my mum or Mrs XX.

This makes them have to get everything right and doesnt allow them to take advantage of any slip ups in procedure.

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Okay thanks for the info. I'm reading all sorts of different advice from different places so I'm having a hard time understanding what I should or shouldn't say/do or why.

 

Is it okay if I identify myself as the driver as long as I keep it to third person? Ie could I say "The person named above was the driver at the time of the event?" rather than "I was the driver"? I was under the impression from their letter that if the driver isn't named, they can pursue the RK for the charge? As said, I don't want them pursuing my mother so I feel the need to name myself. EDIT: nevermind. Just looked at the online appeal form and it asks if the person writing is the driver or not so I will identify myself that way anyway.

 

Sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm having a hard time understanding all the complexities involved with the wordage.

 

Anyway, I've made the following adjustment:

 

"The registered keeper received today a parking charge notice for the above vehicle but was not the driver at the time of the event. The driver appeals the charge for the following reason:

 

BPA establishes that a discretionary period of a minimum of 10 minutes must apply. As a member of the BPA, ParkingEye should therefore cancel the ticket as the alleged breach is de minimis."

Edited by Anniemaniac
redundancy

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Okay, ignore my previous post - sorry for all this messing around. I've removed as much as possible to make it as short and to the point as it can be:

 

"The registered keeper received a parking charge notice for the above vehicle. The driver is appealing the charge for the following reason:

 

The BPA establishes that a discretionary period of a minimum of 10 minutes must apply. As a member of the BPA, ParkingEye should therefore cancel the ticket as the alleged breach is de minimis."

 

Any good?

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That will do, this is only stage 1. Make sure that you give the address of the driver, even though it is the same.

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