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    • please complete this:     and scan up the PCN bothsides to one multipage pdf read upload   dx  
    • Must satisfy POFA if they want to ground Keeper Liability, so no Keeper liability, their RoboClaims always try to sue both as if they can jointly and severally, but the Courts should be looking at the was Driver or Keeper and chuck the claim out for being vague, but they don't  They might if POFA fails and they know they are onto a loser, might have a last gasp and try to rely on Elliott v Loake a criminal case so not applicable to a Civil claim, and CPS v AJH Films, again not applicable as is about employer/employee, they will do this to try to get someone to cough up before a case they know they are going to lose to salvage what they have already paid ou to go to court.  I would delete the  line   As the keeper of the vehicle, I decline as is my right to name the driver (s) at this time"  That is an oblique reference to the duty to name driver in a Criminal case, and is the Elloitt v Loake scenario.   Others will have better ideas, but lloking decent.
    • Good morning request sent off yesterday to moriarty law  but today got this load of tosh  Combine Jul 17, 2019.pdf
    • In response to your question, I have a copy of the title deeds showing ownership and also the leases. No idea what to do with that info though!   I should be most grateful if you would review the attached brief draft defence on page 1. The page 2 thoughts are a work in progress.   The POFA point is weak in my opinion, but having read a lot of analysis of the requirements, I haven't managed to come up with anything beefy.   I should be grateful for any ideas on that, as it seems like a failure to follow procedure would be a strong defence.   Also it asks for the driver's details on the PCN and then the claim states the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver, but I don't really understand whether there's a point of defence there.    DRAFT DEFENCE 1)      The claimant has failed to prove that VCS had a contract with the landowner (The West London Property Corporation Ltd.) in August 2015, and therefore failed to show either a legitimate interest in controlling parking at the Berkeley Precinct, or the authorisation to make charges on their own behalf, for any overstay in the carpark, including for first-time offenders (relevant to Tesco lease). (no response to CPR 31.14 request delivered and signed for at 10.32a.m. on 9th July) 2)      The claimant has failed to prove that VCS obtained a planning permit from the Sheffield Planning Department under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007 (also requested in my CPR 31.14 letter) and that there were prominent signs in existence at that time, showing clearly the terms and conditions for parking and the charge payable for any breach. Therefore, the three elements of offer, acceptance and consideration required for a contract were not met, and no contract existed. 3)      The claimant failed to issue the PCN in the timescale required under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 for keeper liability and, allowing for the 2 day delivery time afforded to Royal Mail, it arrived a day later than the 14 day deadline. The parking company has not met the keeper liability requirements and therefore keeper liability does not apply. The parking company can therefore only pursue the driver. As the keeper of the vehicle, I decline, as is my right, to provide the name of the driver(s) at the time. As the parking company have neither named the driver(s) nor provided any evidence as to who the driver(s) were, I submit I am not liable to any charge.    
    • Hi All,   I just received a PCN from UKCPM for not having my pass displayed at 23:08 on 06/07.   Standard £100 charge with an ever so kind of them discount to £60 for 14 days.   What's the best way to deal with this?   Thanks KM
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stan5131

St James's Hospital Leeds, PCN ZZPS

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Not been on here for a while.

 

Received a NTO five months after parking in a hospital.

There was no pcn on the car so was surprised to get a NTO five months later.

I have looked about this site and fired off a couple of emails which I will copy below.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Further to your letter dated 3rd October and request for payment.

Please note that there was no PCN on the car and this is the first I am aware.

 

The incident referred to is more than 56 days prior to the receipt of your notice.

As such you have not complied with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to imply keeper liability. In which case, the matter must be taken up with the driver of the vehicle.

 

As the keeper of the vehicle, I consider this matter to be closed and shall not enter into any further communication.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Good morning,

 

Thank you for your email.

Our client is not relying on POFA(2012) in order to pursue this PCN.

Our client will argue the balance of probability that as you are the keeper you would have been the driver as well.

Our client feels there is sufficient evidence to pursue this PCN and have maintained their instruction to recover the outstanding balance. If the account remains unresolved, it will progress to debt recovery.

Kind regards

Good Afternoon.

 

Thank you for your email.

As the vehicle is insured for two drivers, I am afraid this cannot be relied on in court.

I fully intend to defend any court action, where I will furnish the courts with a copy of the Certificate of Insurance, showing two named drivers.

Yours faithfully,

 

Good afternoon,

Thank you for your email.

So just to be clear, you are going to submit the driver's details in court?

Seems like this may be looked at as a waste of the court's time, why not submit the driver's details now to avoid this process?

Either way, these details will be supplied and this PCN will be pursued.

Kind regards

 

 

I do not know who was driving!

Just to be clear - this PCN was issued 5 MONTHS ago!

There was no ticket on the vehicle and this has been your first contact regarding this matter.

Are you expecting me to remember who was driving the vehicle 5 months ago?

 

You need to read my last email properly.

I did not suggest I was going to give the driver details in court! I

wrote that I would prove there are two named drivers, meaning you cannot assume the owner was the driver!

 

Your request is unreasonable, given the delay in sending out a NTO

 

Good morning

Thank you for your email.

If there are only 2 named drivers, and it wasn't you driving. It may be easier to work out who was driving than you think.

You said you will submit insurance documents which will name the 2 people on the policy.

One will be you, and and the other the driver?

Once this evidence is presented the liability can be updated.

The balance will have increased by that point though, however, that will be due to your obstruction.

Kind regards

 

You are either not reading my emails, or being deliberately obstructive.

I have repeatedly told you that I DO NOT know who was driving, as the incident was some 5 months ago!

It is impossible to remember which of the two named drivers were driving the vehicle some 5 months ago. Why has it taken 5 months to issue a NTO ?

 

Good afternoon,

 

Thank you for your email.

If you had a chat with the other person named on the policy I am sure between you, you would be able to figure out who was driving.

 

The fact that our client gave the driver 5 months to resolve this before involving you as the registered keeper would stand in their favour as there is no time limit for this correspondence to be sent out unless you are reliant on the Protections Of Freedoms Act (2012), which our client is not.

This will progress to the legal stage if you do not co-operate.

Why waste the time going down this route when I can offer you an affordable payment plan that resolves this matter without legal fees applied?

Kind regards

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

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should have ignored them then....

 

 

what hospital and who is the PPC?


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Hi,

The chain of emails is funny and actually shows just how childish these companies are.

 

We do need more details of the company in question as the only one I can find so far is PCN (NW) Ltd.

 

Have a look at the bottom of the letter and it should have the full details of the company.

 

Oh yes, stop feeding their ego's


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leeds NHS parking are self governed from looking at other threads here as far as I can see


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Hi. Thanks for replies so far. Its IpaymyPCN.net

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ah ZZZPS


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they are all the same all fleecers

you say the PCN is hospital issued?

or is there a company name on it?


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they are all the same all fleecers

you say the PCN is hospital issued?

or is there a company name on it?

 

 

 

There was never a PCN on the car! So I have no idea.

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ok so who was the nto from or was it a ntk?

and who did you email?


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ok so who was the nto from or was it a ntk?

and who did you email?

 

 

 

It is headed NOTICE TO KEEPER/HIRER. PCN Admin Centre (letter head). And I emailed customerservices@Ipaymypcn which was their contact details on the letter.

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What you have received is very misleading. Can you upload the document in pdf format and obscure all personal details. ( name, address, car reg no., any barcodes and reference numbers)

 

IpaymyPCN.net is a company that acts for many parking companies so they don't actually run the parking management. This must be either in house or another company.

 

Either way, I would complain to the hospital as this sort of practice is nasty.

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Thank you Silverfox. I will upload later as dashing to work now. Isnt there a time limit for issuing these notices?

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If the 'client' ( not this shower) is a member of the BPA then yes, they should. Members of the BPA follow the rules of PoFA 2012. Members of the IPC do not follow PoFA and as such they can take as long as they want.

 

This is where things get confusing. We don't actually know who their client is! (apart from being the hospital)

 

ZZPS who operate the ipaymyPCN are members of the BPA so I would be complaining to them about the content of the emails


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If the 'client' ( not this shower) is a member of the BPA then yes, they should. Members of the BPA follow the rules of PoFA 2012. Members of the IPC do not follow PoFA and as such they can take as long as they want.

 

This is where things get confusing. We don't actually know who their client is! (apart from being the hospital)

 

ZZPS who operate the ipaymyPCN are members of the BPA so I would be complaining to them about the content of the emails

 

 

 

Yes, bottom of letter says they are members of BPA. thanks

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Took a while to find but Leeds NHS trust are members of the BPA so all the rubbish spouted in those emails should also be reported to Jimmy's as well.

 

Car.Parking@leedsth.nhs.uk

 

As members of the BPA, all members MUST follow the protocols laid out in this:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9155/guidance-unpaid-parking-charges.pdf

 

No PCN issued, No Notice To Keeper issued within 56 days, No opportunity to appeal therefore any claim in court should fail so apart from the complaints to Jimmy's and the BPA, I would ignore this bunch of fools


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Thank you. I have fired off another email. Will report back any reply. Once again, many thanks

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Why does the insurance being for 2 named drivers limit the drivers of that car to just those two people? My car is insured for 2 named drivers but I can drive any vehicle that does not belong to me as well. So anyone with similar insurance could have legally been driving your car with your permission. PPC's are such idiots.

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And this morning's response:

 

 

Good morning,

 

 

I have done my utmost to help you resolve this, you leave pour client no option but to progress this account to the legal stage.

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bowlarks


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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let 'em willy wave

ignore

but don't ignore a claimform should they be stupid enough to get a court to issue one.

 

 

next time..

NO LETTER TENNIS is the answer!!


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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You could dare them to.

 

They know that they have no authority to do anything and so far their paper trail will land them introuble if it is continued by their client.

 

The reality is they want your money and are hoping that you have been frightened enough by what they spout into paying.

 

Your continues communications make it look to them as though they have you hooked so they ramp up the threats and insinuation.

 

If you go quiet expect more threatening letters and then a "final chance" to settle.

 

After that they will more than likely disappear because they only get paid to write scary letters.

 

Block their email address so they have to use money posting things.

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