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    • I feel that people are focusing too much on the OPs property being a council house and putting responsibility on the council to resolve this.   imagine for a moment that the OPs house is privately owned, now what powers would they have to take action on the trees? Pretty much none without taking the tree owner to court right. Well as the trees are privately owned, that is the same power that the council have right now.   the information with the £375 will be inline with high hedges legislation as this will be the only power the council will have and it is common for there to be a charge for this.   this is not a social housing issue, but a neighbor dispute with a private homeowner.   i used to work as a tree officer for a local authority and from experience have seen that people’s idea of dangerous and what is actually dangerous are two different issues. A councils power to enforce tree works are also limited and will usually only be where a private tree poses a risk to the highway, not to another property as that is a civil matter (even where the council own the 2nd property).    With regards to risk to underground pipes, this is something you will be unlikely to successfully argue as various studies have found that unless a tree is planted on top of the pipe and crush it, the roots will not cause damage, but rather only enter through already damaged areas as they are opportunistic, any tree roots in drains are usually a secondary issue where a pipe had existing damage and to resolve it will require a permanent repair to the pipe to prevent recurrence.   the only options i see here are to calculate the height allowed under high hedges legislation (it varies depending on what direction the property faces , the location of hedges etc) and try to enforce that which will involve the fee. Otherwise there is little you can do as the private homeowner has a right to have trees in their garden although they may be liable if they were to cause damage to your property (such as a shed) or the councils property in the future.
    • Served on 16 Feb.   On reviewing the MCOL website today for an updated, I noticed that 1) Hermes has aknowledged the claim, but not yet filed a defence, and 2) that I there was a glitch / error on the form. Essentially, it looks like I had accidentally left the "I will send detailed particulars of claim" box ticke (I thought I had unticked it), with the result that the claim section has been truncated, and some extra text has automatcially been added - in red below):   "...Claimant seeks £XXX, plus I will provide the defendant with separate detailed particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form. The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of..."   This is obviously not ideal. Is it better to try to amend the claim somehow, or to just submit a brief POC that a) clarifies that I am seeking £XXX plus costs (which was automatically truncated), and b) sets out my calculation of the £XXX?  
    • Hi   It amazes me how they pass the buck as they don't want to deal with a private homeowner but if the shoe was on the other foot they would be hammering down on you for breach of tenancy.   As this is council housing you need to make a Formal Complaint in writing to the Council Housing about this (as a social housing landlord they have a complaints process they have to follow). you need to exhaust their complaints process. Make sure and title your letter Formal Complaint.   From what you have posted this tree is not just a nuisance but also a Health & Safety risk:   1. The tree being overgrown is now a danger to the occupants/Guest/Visitors to your property   2. The tree has overgrown into the Council Housings Boundaries your property causing damage/endangerment to the occupants/guest/visitors.   3. As the roots of the tree are also overgrown into your property you have concerns that these may be causing/damaging to any underground pipework that may be within the boundray of the property.   4. So far the Councils actions have been to treat their Council Housing tenant as a third class citizen with a private homeowner aloud to cause endangerment/possible damage due to these overgrown trees which are encroaching on your council house property/bounderies.   You also require clarification why you were sent the Healthy Neighbourhood Information which states I have to pay £375 to make a complaint. (make sure and attach a copy of the response that states this cost)   You also require copies of the following:   1. Complaints Policy (not the leaflet) 2. Customer Service Standard (not the leaflet) 3. Health & Safety Policy (not the leaflet) 4. Public Liability Insurance Policy. (not the leaflet) 5. Clarification from you if their is any underground pipeworks running through the bounderies within the garden area (you should have full knowledge of this it being your property/plans) 6. Compensation Policy (not the leaaflet) 7. Equality & Diversity Policy (not the leaflet)   When you get the above policies sit with a pen/pencil/highlighter and take you time reading them and just think to yourself 'DID THEY DO THAT' if not mark it then leave it for a while then do the same again this way you can basically throw/write back stating the haven't followed x policy with which part of that policy and your reason. (you are building evidence to use against them using their own policies. I would also like to refer you to The Local Government (Miscellaneous Provision) Act 1976: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1976/57/part/I/crossheading/dangerous-trees-and-excavations     You need to remember yes it is the Council but the Council Housing is a separate entity and is a Registered Social Landlord (RSL)   Is the Council Housing classed as a registered Charity? (what is their registration number whether charity or RSL?)   Also have a wee look at this CAG link:     
    • @rocky_sharma   Fame at last!!   Dunno how much help it would be in your case, but I could try digging out the txt of my defence if you think it might be relevant to your defence. We might hafta do this via PM, then e-mail though if ya wanna go down that route.   Good luck with yours anyway mate.
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l/o not renewed, zero and clear done and finished

 

Get it in writing from Harrow council, that the l/o was cleared on receipt of your payment and nothing was or will be passed onto anyone else.

 

Harrow council should have told Newlyn what the score was.


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Get it in writing from Harrow council, that the l/o was cleared on receipt of your payment and nothing was or will be passed onto anyone else.

 

Harrow council should have told Newlyn what the score was.

 

UB it is not a matter for the council it is a prescription of the legislation, even if they had kept it the sum would still be due.

 

The sum under the collectin order was the ammount due, that is the sum plus the fees, not the sum due under the order,


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Sorry just read my post and it is a little hard to understand, I will try again.

 

The sum due under the liability order, is due to the authority. The ammount due after the liability is passed to the bailiff becomes the "ammount outstanding"

This is the sum under the liability order plus fees( section 50(3)TCE).

 

This is then a single ammount, it remains so until the account is passed back to the council and the order for enforcement has ended..


DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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( section 50(3)TCE).

 

(3)The amount outstanding is the sum of these—

(a)the amount of the debt which remains unpaid (or an amount that the creditor agrees to accept in full satisfaction of the debt);

 

"the amount of the debt that remains unpaid"...when the enforcement action took place the debt was zero. Even bailiff documentation breaks down, separates and differentiates the two terms debt and fees, so you know they are not one and the same.

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Being a little selictive here the section really reads

 

50(1)Proceeds from the exercise of an enforcement power must be used to pay the amount outstanding.

(2)Proceeds are any of these—

(a)proceeds of sale or disposal of controlled goods;

(b)money taken in exercise of the power, if paragraph 37(1) does not apply to it.

(3)The amount outstanding is the sum of these

(a)the amount of the debt which remains unpaid (or an amount that the creditor agrees to accept in full satisfaction of the debt);

(b)any amounts recoverable out of proceeds in accordance with regulations under paragraph 62 (costs).

 

62(1)Regulations may make provision for the recovery by any person from the debtor of amounts in respect of costs of enforcement-related services.


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( section 50(3)TCE).

 

(3)The amount outstanding is the sum of these—

(a)the amount of the debt which remains unpaid (or an amount that the creditor agrees to accept in full satisfaction of the debt);

 

"the amount of the debt that remains unpaid"...when the enforcement action took place the debt was zero. Even bailiff documentation breaks down, separates and differentiates the two terms debt and fees, so you know they are not one and the same.

 

It is most unusual for ordinary members of the public to be aware of specific legislation regarding bailiff enforcement and rarer still, to be aware of 'Schedule 12' of the Tribunal Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.

 

It would seem that you have sourced information from the internet and in doing so, had the misfortune to come across misleading information that only provides a small 'section' of legisaltion. For example; Item 50(3) does NOT state what you have written above. I notice that Dodgeball has provided an accurate account of what this section actually states.

 

I get the impression that whatever information you are given, you will dispute it. Accordingly, it is best to wait for the response from Newlyn Plc.

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Dodgeball quoted the the section ( section 50(3)TCE). , because I dont know it I have to reference what Dodgeball quotes just to keep up with the knowledge being given.

So i quoted it and then it got more indepth as just that section was deemd selective but that is what I was told was the appropriate applicable section

 

I then question what is being said to gain understanding, "do you mean that "..........what has been quoted in said section means x y z.

I am not disputing the information but merely going over the interpretation of the sections relating to matters in real terms.

 

I thought the purpose was not to solely rely on Newlyns Plc to give their verdict on how they perceive legislation but to come here to get an overview on what is acceptable interpretation; as of course Newlyns are going to say they have made no error.

 

I have been told to wait for Newlyn to self regulate themselves.

 

The conversation has moved through various sections of legislation at present using and incorporating 62(1) which was not apparent when this begun, but I feel waiting for Newlyns to self regulate point of view is really putting the ball in their court, when it would be preferable to know what is, as things stand correct, by outside third parties perspectives not only Newlyn Bailiff perspective.

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Have you spoken to the council about Newlyn's enforcing payment after the 12 month period? If not, please do so.

 

I should have asked earlier...how much is the car worth that has been taken by Newlyn's?

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And is it on HP, if so how much is owing?


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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Your best bet is the 12 month issue, however it seems to back up my belief that the seizure was just a short time e after your payment, as if they were waiting for payment of the Ballance.

 

Also that period can be increased if the court sees fit, or if there is justifiable reason why the enforcement did not take place earlier, which brings up BA question regarding changes of address etc.


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i have spoken to the council but the person on the phone had no indepth knowledge of legislation they agree the date of notice of enforcement letter and agree it is over 12month that enforcement took place but are unable to address the issue as it was done by the bailiff and only end up saying phone the bailiff company.

 

The car is worth about £1500-1800 not on HP nothing owing.

 

Payment direct to the council 03/08/2016, enforcement of fees 10/10/16 there was no change of address. enforcing 52 days after the expiry of the notice of enforcement letter and enforcing 68 days later from payment made to the council.

 

I would have understood if the bailiff company had sought an extension so making it live via the court but they did not.

Likewise I can understand if there was a pro rata distribution and a portion of the debt amount was still outstanding but none was and is .

If i had entered into some agreement or arrangement with Newlyn but again I did not.

 

When the bailiff company are acting on notice of enforcement letter that is out of date and thus invalid, I should not have to pay of have any action taken against me or my property as per legislation.

An expired notice of enforcement letter should not be enforced.

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Who said the bailiff could make a representation to court for extension ?


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I think it was you DB

 

If the council had made a mistake, and not past the payment over it is hardly the OP fault.

 

leakie

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I think it was you DB

 

If the council had made a mistake, and not past the payment over it is hardly the OP fault.

 

leakie

 

No need it would hardley make any difference, the Bailff would still want his fees he would just say untill the account went back or they would be credited to his account.


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I would have thought as you said "Also that period can be increased if the court sees fit" the party to approach the court in this instance seeing as the debt is paid in full to the council and the council have zero interest as they have nothing left to recover, the only party left to approach the court for an increase to the period would be the bailiff company as no other parties have any interest in enforcement.

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But I will be corrected if wrong, and I will apologies DB if I am incorrect.

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And no I did not say anything about an application.


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Bru911

 

DB is correct in saying the way it should happen is if you pay the council direct, and it is with an EC then the council should

pass the payment on, too the EC.

 

 

But in my opinion if you have it in writing that the LO is settled then it is between the council and the EC.

 

The council has made the mistake not you.

 

Also the council are responsible for the actions of the EC.

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I would have thought as you said "Also that period can be increased if the court sees fit" the party to approach the court in this instance seeing as the debt is paid in full to the council and the council have zero interest as they have nothing left to recover, the only party left to approach the court for an increase to the period would be the bailiff company as no other parties have any interest in enforcement.

 

The debt was not paid in full,, the Bai!llf can make an applicatin under 84.5, not something widely known...


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The debt was paid in full.

 

As you say if the circumstances were different and figures changed to show debt still owed to the council maybe so. But as they stand with the debt being cleared to the council due to the council not pro rata which is nothing to do with me and no arrangement in place with Newlyns and the date of notice of enforcement being expired; I cannot see where they are correct in taking action when they do not meet legislation as it stands.

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There seems to be inconsistency in proffered nowledge being demonstrates here.

 

However if this did happen the op would loose a proportion off his payment to the bailiff In any case, as he paid whilst the debt was under an enforcement power.


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The debt was paid in full.

 

As you say if the circumstances were different and figures changed to show debt still owed to the council maybe so. But as they stand with the debt being cleared to the council due to the council not pro rata which is nothing to do with me and no arrangement in place with Newlyns and the date of notice of enforcement being expired; I cannot see where they are correct in taking action when they do not meet legislation as it stands.

 

The regulations do not apportion proceeds until the account is going back


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BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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but the council are saying they have not pro rata any sums from this payment to the bailiff company and they have accepted the payment and the account is now zero and paid in full the bailiff firm were left to collect the outstanding sums within the set guidelines of legislation .

the facts stand me paying the debt whilst the notice of enforcement is valid does nowhere in legislation increase the notice of enforcement period and the bailiff fees whilst still outstanding should for all intents and purposes be held under the time scale set out for the notice of enforcement letter being exercisable within 12months which still appllies and expired well before they began the action.

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The fact is that you paid whilst the amount owed included fees, you did not therefore payy the full amount outstanding, you therefore still owe.

 

If you would have waited the extra few days the full sum would have been allotted to the council as by then tne power would have ended.


DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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paying the council precisely the sum that the council has asked for does not extend to a fact of me making an arrangement in any way with a bailiff company, and the bailiff company cannot enforce where no arrangement is in place with them and the notice of enforcement letter has elapsed due to the 12 month period passing, this should mean that enforcing is going against what is stipulated in legislation.

If i look at it your way regardless of money owed they cannot enforce when the 12 month has expired and no arrangement is in place. They should have sent a new notice of enforcement which they did not, they lost the power to enforce once that benchmark passed. They should have checked everything is valid before enforcement and in this instance they were out of time.

Edited by Bru911

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