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I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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Direct democracy in the mix there. I can see a new movement in politics taking place globally as social media is now embraced. The start of the new world order.

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Direct democracy in the mix there. I can see a new movement in politics taking place globally as social media is now embraced. The start of the new world order.

 

Surely THE new world order is all about controlling mainstream media, like the BBC, or Murdock and his empire, and social media is its antithesis.

Or are you refering to some possible new new world order which is based on diversification of opinion and many voices?

 

and what do you believe social media to do with direct democracy?

I think the failure of polls has shown that people often dont vote in alignment with what they say to others.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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I am all for increasing popular participation in politics which is one reason I hate out FPTP. elections. A form of PR would be better, personally I like the Scottish/German system as it gives some stability but allows smaller parties representation. Yes I know it allows platforms for fascists but maybe if people felt their vote counted they wouldn't cast protest votes.

 

I have been hearing terrible stories of anxieties that EU citizens are going through when applying for permanent residency. If they have not worked and paid tax and NI they may not get it, this would be even if they were married to a UK national with U.K. registered kids.

 

I think I am more depressed about the referendum now than I have ever been especially now Corbyn is using a 3 line whip to agree triggering article 50 .


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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According to research, the poorest 10 areas in northern Europe are all in the UK and they all voted Brexit. They seem to be blaming the EU for their problems, rather than look to the UK government. The richest place in northern Europe was central London, but no other UK area featured in the top 10 richest areas.

 

After Brexit, if UK government does not maintain UK farming subsidies which come from the EU and also does not maintain the EU regional assistance money to poorest areas, then many people who voted Brexit are going to be even more unhappy.


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According to research, the poorest 10 areas in northern Europe are all in the UK and they all voted Brexit. They seem to be blaming the EU for their problems, rather than look to the UK government. The richest place in northern Europe was central London, but no other UK area featured in the top 10 richest areas.

 

After Brexit, if UK government does not maintain UK farming subsidies which come from the EU and also does not maintain the EU regional assistance money to poorest areas, then many people who voted Brexit are going to be even more unhappy.

 

Isnt it strange that it would seem those who will likely lose the largest proportion of what they have, seemed to have voted in the largest numbers to Brexit.

 

As you say, thats a massive lot of potential dissatisfaction waiting to explode.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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Maybe it's because the leave campaign lied and the remain campaign did not pull them up on it.

 

When people have tried to point this out they have been abused.

 

It seems the early indications are now forming of the economic meltdown that was foretold.

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Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Isnt it strange that it would seem those who will likely lose the largest proportion of what they have, seemed to have voted in the largest numbers to Brexit.

 

As you say, thats a massive lot of potential dissatisfaction waiting to explode.

 

It is because they have been told by UKIP and some newspapers that all of their problems are down to EU membership allowing uncontrolled immigration.

 

Yes population increases have put pressure on public services, housing etc, but with a record number of workers paying taxes and spending in the economy, then government should have plenty of money to increase service capacity, housing supply etd.

 

I just wish people would really have a good think about the issues and applied some logic. If they had ever been to Australia which has a controlled immigration system, they will have seen the huge number of Asian migrants and many Australians not being bery happy. They have the same issues as the UK. Australia is a huge country, with a huge amount of mineral wealth, but if they want to trade with countries like China, then those trade deals often come with rights of Chinese citizens to work and live in Australia. If you get on a train in certain parts of Sydney, you will hear Mandarin being spoken and people reading Chinese newspapers.


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It is because they have been told by UKIP and some newspapers that all of their problems are down to EU membership allowing uncontrolled immigration.

 

Yes population increases have put pressure on public services, housing etc, but with a record number of workers paying taxes and spending in the economy, then government should have plenty of money to increase service capacity, housing supply etd.

 

I just wish people would really have a good think about the issues and applied some logic. If they had ever been to Australia which has a controlled immigration system, they will have seen the huge number of Asian migrants and many Australians not being bery happy. They have the same issues as the UK. Australia is a huge country, with a huge amount of mineral wealth, but if they want to trade with countries like China, then those trade deals often come with rights of Chinese citizens to work and live in Australia. If you get on a train in certain parts of Sydney, you will hear Mandarin being spoken and people reading Chinese newspapers.

 

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit

 

 

So, if we want trade deals with China and Australia - we have to relax immigration rules for those countries ! That should be interesting.


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Net migration before Brexit = in excess of 300,000 people

 

Net migration after Brexit ( if it happens) = in excess of 300,000 people

 

Given the numbers of foreign students, foreign spouses, people with rights to come to the UK, work Visas that will be issued etc, i can't see that net migration will be changed.

 

In theory you could control EU migration and non EU migration after Brexit, but it won't happen. The UK has a growing elderly population of people living longer, with more care and medical assistance required as a consequence. This means that both the care and healthcare sectors will need all the people they can get hold of.


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UB

 

Sit on certain buses and trains in Coventry you will hear an awful lot of both mandarin and Cantonese. It is in a great part due to the University of Warwick which has an incredible number of Chinese students. There are also huge numbers of EU students . All adds to the diversity.


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So, if we want trade deals with China and Australia - we have to relax immigration rules for those countries ! That should be interesting.

not forgetting India, as posted before. when May went there to discuss trade the Indian gov't publicly said that they wld want free movement.

it will be for whichever country an agreement is made....


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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not forgetting India, as posted before. when May went there to discuss trade the Indian gov't publicly said that they wld want free movement.

it will be for whichever country an agreement is made....

 

Exactly. Trade deals often come with conditions attached. Some Brexit supporters have a simplistic vision of a future UK trading with the world, with all of the positives and fewer negatives.

 

Part of Britains history is having an empire with trading posts all over the world. Britain lost the empire, but we still trade with the world. Joining the EU did not really affect UK trade that much. There is nothing stopping UK companies trading with whoever they want, if another country does not have barriers that make it difficult. Being part of the EU, has not really affected Germanys economic performance, as they supply equipment to businesses all over the world. If you produce something that is at the right quality and price level, it will sell.


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I doubt many of us will be around to see the real long term consequences of this, in fact as I suggested recently , with him in the Whitehorse, non of us may be around that long.

 

I wonder how history will look upon these events. Maybe let no term the only effect will have been to tear a country apart for a while and cause family rifts and arguments. That in itself has not been good.


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First Nissan LAST week stating they will have to reconsider the Governments promise the sunderland plant will remain competitive after Brexit, That means staying in the customs union/single market. Now Toyota which employs nearly 4,000 at plants in Derbyshire and North Wales.

 

 

Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada said: “We’ve seen the direction of the Prime Minister of the UK. We’re going to consider how our firm can survive.”

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not forgetting India, as posted before. when May went there to discuss trade the Indian gov't publicly said that they wld want free movement.

it will be for whichever country an agreement is made....

 

 

Yep, and I'm sure they are happy for any UK citizens going to Bombay to work in one of the sweatshops to have exactly the same access to benefits and healthcare as Indian Bombay workers, but do insist that in return their nationals here have the same access as UK citizens to UK benefits and healthcare.

 

Bit over double the total EU population in India isnt there?

(average monthly wage about $295 (roughly £295 soon) - but that does include the Bombay Billionaires and has risen significantly over the last 5 years - unlike most of us

 

What was perhaps the biggest Brexit issue (as far as we can tell) ....

 

So we are leaving the EU to have free movement agreements with India and the USA ....

 

Looking for cheap place in Scotland ... quick


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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Surely THE new world order is all about controlling mainstream media, like the BBC, or Murdock and his empire, and social media is its antithesis.

Or are you refering to some possible new new world order which is based on diversification of opinion and many voices?

 

and what do you believe social media to do with direct democracy?

I think the failure of polls has shown that people often dont vote in alignment with what they say to others.

 

The news tonight has raised the subject of The new world order.

 

Issues which gain momentum on line can be a powerful message to the government and can influence their thinking.

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The news tonight has raised the subject of The new world order.

 

Issues which gain momentum on line can be a powerful message to the government and can influence their thinking.

 

What 'news'?

What 'conspiracy'?

 

The 'conspiracy' to impeach Trump?

Some would call that justice.

 

The 'Conspiracy' of momentum and Corbyn to destroy the remnants of democracy in this country?

 

The 'Conspiracy' of our Government cabinet to lie to us to promote their own interests?

 

The 'Conspiracy' of the Tories to destroy the NHS so they can balance their books without lowering their subsidies to the super rich?

 

 

Or the Conspiracy that we are run by shape shifting alien lizards, because people dont want to accept that its other people who are the monsters.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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UKIP goes all in and calls Labour:

Privatisation of the NHS vs Brexit

 

Lets see what the rest gamble, and will Farage throw his 10 gallon hat in

 

Will the LibDems continue their surge

 

 

So will UKIP, with the support of the Tories win Stoke up from second place?

Somewhat more importantly, will a three horse race see labour crash and the Libdems continue their resurgence?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ukip-paul-nuttall-stoke-by-election_uk_587f72dbe4b0831b7c6e5f11?utm_hp_ref=uk&-uk

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2017/01/wholl-win-stoke-trent

 

http://news.ladbrokes.com/politics/british-politics/odds-slashed-on-liberal-democrats-to-win-stoke-by-election.html

 

 

I wonder if May is doing a Boris, and looking for someone please to give her a valid excuse to escape the demands of her 'victory'

(I see Boris is staying true to form as a complete liability to everyone and everything)

 

 

Tories throw Stoke Tory voters out with the bath water apparently hoping Tory voters go to UKIP despite Tories literally only being a handful of votes behind UKIP at last election.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/tories-write-off-stoke-by-election-as-they-fear-awkward-defeat-party-sources-say_uk_588108f5e4b0b8867de7372b?utm_hp_ref=uk&-uk

 

Rather strange given that there is a significant chance that voters might continue deserting UKIP - commonly back to the Tories or strangely ex labour -> Libdems.

(strange as libdems anti Brexit whereas Labout now quite clearly = +Brexit)

 

Proved to be a faux pas pax ("kiss of peace" LOL) last time.

A LIbDem shock (even 2nd place) really will be a shocker if you look at the 2015 result - BUT they did come second behind Labour in 2010.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoke-on-Trent_Central_%28UK_Parliament_constituency%29

 

 

 

 

Battle is on in Copeland though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copeland_by-election,_2017

 

 

The internal battles in Labour for the candidates has been eye opening as well, with locals defying Corbynite/momentum candidates - which in my opinion gives Labour a better chance in copeland

http://uk.businessinsider.com/gillian-troughton-labour-candidate-copeland-by-election-stoke-2017-1

 

I think a Labour defeat in a historic Labour stronghold (since 1935) Copeland really does put an indisputable kiss of death on Corbyn and momentum as far as UK voters are concerned.

 

Labour will be running the usual pro NHS rhetoric - which will get them a lot of votes

But Labour is both anti Nuclear and pro Brexit, despite the Labour candidate being evidently well liked locally and pro Nuclear in a nuclear industry area.

 

A loss for Labour in both these will devastating - although unlikely to affect Corbyn himself.

 

Copeland voted massively to Brexit (almost 2:1), so A continued libdem upsurge will speak volumes, although that prior vote is of course in Corbyns favour

 

 

A continued UKIP and Labour crash and burn with a continued LIBDem upsurge might indicate the biggest shift in UK politics since the 1950's, and the longer Labour leave it, the harder it will be for them to turn it back around.

 

 

 

So Copeland region voters seem to have strong opinion in the following areas:

 

+ nuclear (against Labour {although candidate is clearly pro-nuclear industry) - for Tories (Libdems +nuclear power, anti Trident))

 

+NHS (for labour and LibDems - against Tories and UKIP {although many are conned by Tory/UKIP rhetoric IMO})

 

+Brexit (For UKIP, Tories and Labour - against Libdems)


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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The Supreme court have ruled that the Government cannot trigger Article 50 without consent/approval of parliament. However, the Scottish and Welsh Assemblies do not have to be consulted.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jan/24/supreme-court-article-50-judgement-announces-its-article-50-judgment-politics-live

 

 

 

Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish first minister, is planning to stage a Holyrood vote on article 50 even though the supreme court unanimously ruled that the UK government is not legally required to seek Scottish consent, as she edges slowly towards staging a second independence referendum.


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I'll add a small rider that Libdems nuclear policy is a bit confused, (possibly dont want to alienate anyone)

and that the LibDems are pro fracking - but with woolly 'better safeguards'


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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The Supreme court have ruled that the Government cannot trigger Article 50 without consent/approval of parliament. However, the Scottish and Welsh Assemblies do not have to be consulted.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jan/24/supreme-court-article-50-judgement-announces-its-article-50-judgment-politics-live

 

Yes, best reasonably possible result for the Tories (even though some might think otherwise)

 

Its the decision that an act of parliament is needed that seems to be a prime driver for 'no need for a devolved OK'.

No act needed could possibly have strengthened the devolved parliaments OK needed case.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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Lets just put the Votes in real context.

 

46,500,001 total voters

 

17,410,742 Voted Leave

16,141,241 Voted Remain

12,948,018 Did not vote for EITHER option for whatever reason

 

So More representative, and far more clearly explaining the conflict and enduring dissatisfaction across the whole of the UK is

 

29,089,259 (63% - a clear majority) DID NOT vote to Leave

30,358,760 (65% - a clear majority) DID NOT vote to Remain

 

So the only thing we can be sure of is that a MAJORITY of the UKs voters DID NOT vote for either option

 

So Either of the options as offered can only represent a minority view as it stands.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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We also know that people from both sides wanted different things

Some leave actually wanted a curb on immigration

Some wanted a 'return of sovereignty'

Some want to leave the free trade area

 

Some of the remainers wanted each of the above

 

I wonder if the complexities of international politics and relations were better understood by everyone there would have been less worry about sovereignty . Do people really think that all decisions made by parliament are only concerned with the UK. An example may be Trident- if it wasn't for our international responsibilities , maybe they would have voted against it.

 

Nothing is every binary yes no


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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We also know that people from both sides wanted different things

Some leave actually wanted a curb on immigration

Some wanted a 'return of sovereignty'

Some want to leave the free trade area

 

Some of the remainers wanted each of the above

 

I wonder if the complexities of international politics and relations were better understood by everyone there would have been less worry about sovereignty . Do people really think that all decisions made by parliament are only concerned with the UK. An example may be Trident- if it wasn't for our international responsibilities , maybe they would have voted against it.

 

Nothing is every binary yes no

 

Absolutely.

Those % are the lowest rejection percentages, not the highest. If you take into consideration any and all caveats in the minds of the voters, its probably nearer 80% rejection of both the Leave and Remain options.

 

I just cant get over that when the 'stated' and 'official' stances of the PM and opposition was Remain, just how poorly it was presented. One can only conclude - deliberately.

Those rejections are really rejections of most of our government, yet there they all are with very few exceptions, still lying, manipulating, self aggrandising.

 

Where are treason charges when you need them.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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