Article 50 Discussion

[honeybee13]

2 hours ago, Conniff said:

I haven't mentioned anything about vote fraud, only you have so you show us the proof there has never been any fraudulent votes cast 'ever' ?

Ah, I didn't think you could.

 

 

But is it right for 3.5 million people to have to get photo ID - which they have to pay for - when you can count the numbers of proven voter fraud cases each year on the fingers of one hand?

 

You just carry on reading the super left-wing Guardian

 

I would post links from the Telegraph but they have a paywall, the Guardian doesn't.

[barns66]

Democracy's.slippery slope to oblivion.

Edited May 11, 2021 by barns66
adding

[tobyjugg2]

Paywalled - but headline summary is there to see (which is as far as Brexiters tend to get anyway)

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/02/28/voter-plans-risk-us-style-voter-suppression-warn-civil-rights/

 

"Introducing mandatory voter ID in Britain risks “US-style voter suppression”

[tobyjugg2]

OK Con, You've failed miserably on that

How about answering:

 

whats the very very simple, honourable and quality solution to the UK/NI/RoI-EU border food issue which simply:

* actually meets with a number of headline assurances of the brexiters in the Brexit campaign and since,

* would deliver on that headline claim to the british people

* means there wont need to be a food border either in the Irish sea or on the Island of Ireland and would minimise checks right down

* still allows the UK to sign deals elsewhere that meet that quite basic, simple and already claimed assurance,  and deals that dont in other areas?

* Might go some way towards renewing so worth of the Uk's word on International agreements (provided they didnt renege of course)

 

??

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[Conniff]

What the hell are you on about now.

 

Why shouldn't you have ID to go and cast a vote, you can't even get a parcel from the post office without ID, most things require ID so why not to vote?

 

Also please explain how it will stop people voting,??

 

[honeybee13]

You don't need photo ID for the post office though. They're saying photo ID to be able to vote.

 

https://fullfact.org/law/voter-photo-id-parcels/

[tobyjugg2]

4 minutes ago, Conniff said:

Also please explain how it will stop people voting,??

 

 

Already have Con, Already have

 

Did you present your approved photo id before posting that as you claim its not an issue?

Edited May 12, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[Conniff]

No you have not given an explanation how it will stop people.

 

And yes you do have to have photo id for the post office, i've just had to collect a parcel and it required photo id

[tobyjugg2]

2 minutes ago, Conniff said:

No you have not given an explanation how it will stop people.

 

And yes you do have to have photo id for the post office, i've just had to collect a parcel and it required photo id

 

No you dont Con - credit or debit card will do quite nicely or even a recent bill

 

 

Voter ID plans risk 'US-style voter suppression', warn civil rights groups American civil rights groups say mandatory voter ID shuts out marginalised voters By Tony Diver, Political Corresponden

- Telegraph

Edited May 12, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[Conniff]

22 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

 

No voter fraud in any significant amount at all and most certainly nothing warranting any changes to the existing clearly very effective process and mechanisms, let alone a compulsory requirment for photo id being imposed upon the nation.

 

else by your disingenuous illogic connniff, you should present such photo ID to buy an ice cream - due to the insignificant 'potential' for fraud in that process.

 

and of course as you support it - also present your fully Johnson validated photo id before each posting on a forum ... due to the far more likely event of disingenuous and/or false/fraudulent statements by you.

So you are saying 'you' know the exact number of people who voted fraudulently, why don't you tell the authorities and publish those number here please ?

[tobyjugg2]

2 minutes ago, Conniff said:

So you are saying 'you' know the exact number of people who voted fraudulently, why don't you tell the authorities and publish those number here please ?

 

The Tiny, insignificant official figures were linked here by HB,  weren't they CON

Edited May 12, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[Conniff]

Bull, point out that post then pl,ease

[tobyjugg2]

23 hours ago, Conniff said:

I haven't mentioned anything about vote fraud, only you have so you show us the proof there has never been any fraudulent votes cast 'ever' ?

Ah, I didn't think you could.

 

 

23 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

Data from the Electoral Commission.

 

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/our-views-and-research/our-research/electoral-fraud-data

 

And more from FullFact about fraud and people not managing to vote.

 

https://fullfact.org/crime/voter-id-2019/

 

23 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

Lets not forget that voter fraud is the justification claimed by the Tories for the need for compulsory voter photo id

(although they of course carfully word it 'potential' to avoid being outright liars rather than simply being 'disingenuous)

 

Cabinet Office: "Showing identification to vote is a reasonable approach to combat the inexcusable potential for voter fraud in our current system and strengthen its integrity."

 

From the links above:

"In 2018, there was no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud.

Of the 266 cases that were investigated by the police, one led to a conviction, and two suspects accepted police cautions.

 

In 2017, there was one conviction and eight suspects accepted police cautions."

 

 

 

Hows that CON man

 

as stated

 

From the links above:

"In 2018, there was no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud.

Of the 266 cases that were investigated by the police, one led to a conviction, and two suspects accepted police cautions.

In 2017, there was one conviction and eight suspects accepted police cautions."

 

Absolutely nothing to justify even the risk of disenfranchisement of voters, let alone the actuality

Edited May 12, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[Conniff]

I mentioned that ID cards would be needed to place a vote, in your attempt to get one over as you always do, you brought up fraud.

 

You then said millions would be stopped from voting because they didn't have the id and I said the council will issue so there is no need at all for anyone not

to have id if they wish to bote.

 

This is page 187, that's 187 pages of you whinging and saying you know everything and everyone else is a fool and knows nothing. step back my friend and take a look at yourself

 

P.S.  Evidence, that doesn't mean there wasn't any.  Thousands of criminals get away with their crime because there was no evidence.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Conniff

[tobyjugg2]

11 minutes ago, Conniff said:

I mentioned that ID cards would be needed to place a vote, in your attempt to get one over as you always do, you brought up fraud.

 

That is the populist minister claimed justification for imposing the photo ID for voting as already linked, now isnt it CON?

 

Heres the example used of the many available linked for you yet again CON

Cabinet Office claim: "Showing identification to vote is a reasonable approach to combat the inexcusable potential for voter fraud in our current system and strengthen its integrity."

 

need pictures CON?

 

Even handcock admits its as near to a none issue as you can get

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/matt-hancock-voter-fraud-photo-id-b1845363.html

Matt Hancock admits only 6 voter fraud cases at last election, as protests grow over ‘photo ID’ crackdown

 

The Electoral Commission warned young people, people from ethnic minorities, women and the elderly were most likely to be penalised.

Edited May 12, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

so come on CON

Whats the justification for requiring photo ID for voting?

 

We have demonstrated that the govs own figures show that fraud is negligible under the existing system - aka it works VERY well as is,  and certainly nothing to warrant a change squandering even more tax payer money than they already have and are.

 

Even the populists only allude to the vague claims of potential for some sort of undefined fraud maybe oneday possibly not against the laws of physics  .. even if its demonstrably NOT the case.

 

So what and where is the solid cost benefit justification for spending even a penny of tax payer money on this?

Edited May 12, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Boris Johnson seems to have acquired a CCJ.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/12/boris-johnson-faces-court-judgment-over-535-unpaid-debt

[Conniff]

Because you can't prove a point doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Just do as you are told for a change and get an ID or don't vote - simple.

 

All this crap about Johnson didn't do any good at these elections so continuing with stories to try and shame the government won't bring them down either.

 

Come up with sensible policies, things people want instead of continually whinging, 187 pages of it on this thread alone, you really must have the saddest life,

perhaps you should move in with HB and then you can cuss in the living room over coffee.

[Conniff]

54 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Boris Johnson seems to have acquired a CCJ.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/12/boris-johnson-faces-court-judgment-over-535-unpaid-debt

Well well whoop de doo

 

How much debt is the UK in?

• £1,685 billion is owed by individuals in the UK (September 2020).
• On average every Brit spent £865 on interest alone last year.
• 280 people are declared bankrupt every day in the UK (August to October 2020).
• £31,798 average debt per adult in the UK (August 2020).
• There is over £1.95 trillion public sector debt in the UK (May 2020).
• This is equal to 100% of gross domestic product (GDP) – the first time that debt as a percentage of GDP has exceeded 100% since the financial year ending March 1963.

Shows he is a normal like person 

[tobyjugg2]

So Conn (despite no approved ID being shown by you):

 

1. What and where is the solid cost benefit justification for spending even a penny of tax payer money on photo ID for voting?

Even without the governments own stats on the lack of ANY insignificant voter fraud under the existing system?

 

2. What is the simple, already promised in the Brexit campaign and beyond, solution to the food deliveries UK/NI and UK/EU and NI/EIRE which would still allow the UK to negotiate external deals?

 

Forbes:

Official data shows just two people received a conviction or police caution for impersonating another voter in 2019—a year that featured a U.K.-wide general election

Edited May 12, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

22 minutes ago, Conniff said:

Well well whoop de doo

 

How much debt is the UK in?

• £1,685 billion is owed by individuals in the UK (September 2020).
• On average every Brit spent £865 on interest alone last year.
• 280 people are declared bankrupt every day in the UK (August to October 2020).
• £31,798 average debt per adult in the UK (August 2020).
• There is over £1.95 trillion public sector debt in the UK (May 2020).
• This is equal to 100% of gross domestic product (GDP) – the first time that debt as a percentage of GDP has exceeded 100% since the financial year ending March 1963.

Shows he is a normal like person 

 

Could you post a link to your information please, Conniff? I'll add it to your post.

[tobyjugg2]

2 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

Boris Johnson seems to have acquired a CCJ.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/12/boris-johnson-faces-court-judgment-over-535-unpaid-debt

 

 

They'll be breaking in the flat an taking a roll or two (overheads and fees) of his golden wallpaper off the wall to pay it ...

 

He'll need a few more walls full of golden paper for the 'public sector' debt that CON referred (figure is questionable but at the low end of the ballpark figure) - as thats  part of Johnson and Sunacks sovereign/national debt after routing money to their cronies.

 

So CON posts appallingly high JOHNSON GENERATED DEBT AS AN EXCUSE FOR ... JOHNSON GENERATED DEBT

lol

 

Would that be deception .. or cluelessness CON?

The populists normally claim cluelessness when caught doon't they?

I was unaware that I was spending that much of other peoples money your honour, and also unaware that much of what I was spending it on was not going to be delivered.

I trusted my ,mates with your money. and they did an astonishingly good job of taking it.

Edited May 12, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[Conniff]

i honestly don't know how you can spend week in week out on here whinging J.  I know CAG is dead now but there are other things in life.

[honeybee13]

It's a discussion for some people, Conniff. You don't have to follow the thread if it upsets you. 

[tobyjugg2]

2 hours ago, Conniff said:

Because you can't prove a point doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

 

You'll be booking in for your dengue hemorrhagic fever treatment then will you?

 

 

While you wait perhaps you can answer the outstanding questions?

 

1. What and where is the solid cost benefit justification for spending even a penny of tax payer money on photo ID for voting?

Even without the governments own stats on the lack of ANY insignificant voter fraud under the existing system?

 

2. What is the simple, already promised in the Brexit campaign and beyond, solution to the food deliveries UK/NI and UK/EU and NI/EIRE which would still allow the UK to negotiate external deals?

 

David Davis :

voter ID plans are “pointless… a waste of time… (and) an illiberal solution in pursuit of a non-existent problem,” as he called on the government to abandon the “expensive” proposals.

Edited May 12, 2021 by tobyjugg2