Article 50 Discussion

[tobyjugg2]

Missed a trick there didn't I?

 

Should have been

Door smashed and broken in at lunchtime Christmas day

 

'Everybody on the floor with your hands behind your head, we are Serco covid wardens'

'We searched your clubcard and found you had ordered a 10-12 person Turkey, along with an extra two 9 packs of loo roles'

'More than enough for Suella to issue a forced entry warrant'

[brassnecked]

But they went to wrong house, as in Acacia Avenue instead of Acacia grove, so they still ended up with an unlawful arrest wrongful detention, and a bitten bum and scratches when the dogs & cats went for them.  Police surgeon confirmed it was the cats not the dogs that injured the coppers.

[tobyjugg2]

Interesting that one of the remaining hurdles to 'a deal' is that the EU want to be able to take the UK to court and sue if the oathbreaker runs to form.

Johnson 'the liar' of course seems to resent that and have issues with having something hold him to account ..

 

bit rich as the USA want their companies to be able to sue the UK government if the UK gov implement something (like rights/health and safety/environmental protections) that affects the US companies profits negatively ..

Edited December 23, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[determindator]

Interesting the Fish Brexit has been delivered next to Christmas, so timely and the gift to the nation 

[determindator]

9 minutes ago, determindator said:

Interesting the Fish Brexit has been delivered next to Christmas, so timely and the gift to the nation 

A Cunning Plan?

[tobyjugg2]

LOL

.. or perhaps the tattered remnants of a Cummings plan Baldrickified?

[honeybee13]

It seems to be going slowly in Brussels. The negotiators have had sandwiches taken in for lunch and there's talk of things being announced this evening, possibly.

 

They think the PM is ringing around ERG MPs to make sure they'll back him. Does he really need their votes? Someone tweeted earlier that the version of Brexit he seems to have negotiated is closer to the ERG's idea than anyone else's and he's still worried they may not be happy. I'm not sure what they will be happy with tbh.

[citizenB]

They were having pizzas delivered last time I saw the news, HB  

 

[honeybee13]

The EU have published a helpful summary of the changes that happen from 1 January. A lot's been lost.

 

John Ashton has the two pages on his Twitter feed.

 

https://twitter.com/Johnrashton47?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

 

 eu chart.pdf

[brassnecked]

They should have gone EEA/EFTA, as in May started the mess upw ith Lancaster House.

[tobyjugg2]

I see Starmer has instructed labour to vote in favour of Johnsons thin deal

What a prat. Abstaining is the only real option for a credible leader otherwise he is effectively supporting Johnsons lies to the UK voters.

 

 

He probably thinks that the voters will vote for him as Johnson is the only other option

well Corbyn thought that, and although Starmer is a better bet than Corbyn ever would be

- once betrayed, many will never forgive.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

I don't agree with what Starmer is doing. How is Labour going to criticise anything that goes wrong with Brexit when they voted for the agreement?

 

This is David Allen Green's blog from yesterday with his thoughts on the Treaty.

 

https://davidallengreen.com/2020/12/this-agreement-is-not-the-end-of-brexit-it-is-a-five-year-political-truce/

[tobyjugg2]

18 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

I don't agree with what Starmer is doing. How is Labour going to criticise anything that goes wrong with Brexit when they voted for the agreement?

 

This is David Allen Green's blog from yesterday with his thoughts on the Treaty.

 

https://davidallengreen.com/2020/12/this-agreement-is-not-the-end-of-brexit-it-is-a-five-year-political-truce/

 

Exactly.

There is also the political gain of the internal war among the Populists/Tories being more visible if labour simply abstains 'Not wanting no deal, but unable to support this half baked crock that the Tories are shovelling onto the voters rather than what Johnson and the Leave campaign promised'

 

Starmer is a prat. Simply to avoid the snide snipes of Johnson rather than pressing Johnson for real answers it would seem.

[tobyjugg2]

So, it would seem that the populists have agreed with Turkey - the Vote Leave Brexit whipping boy immigrant flood claims - what is largely a continuance of the Turkey EU deal - aka what was already available...

 

Wonder if that includes the preferential visa status for Turkish citizens to enter the UK as they have with the EU ?

Now wouldn't that be something given the xenophobic Brexiter poster on Turkish immigration to the UK if we stayed in the EU ?

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/turkey-britain-trade-agreement-brexit-b1779598.html

https://english.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2020/12/28/uk-turkey-to-sign-free-trade-deal-this-week

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[Jase1982]

3 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

I don't agree with what Starmer is doing. How is Labour going to criticise anything that goes wrong with Brexit when they voted for the agreement?

 

This is David Allen Green's blog from yesterday with his thoughts on the Treaty.

 

https://davidallengreen.com/2020/12/this-agreement-is-not-the-end-of-brexit-it-is-a-five-year-political-truce/

 

Starmer is just scared of going against what the people voted for.  He thinks the risk of not supporting brexit is greater than the risks to peoples livelihood.

[honeybee13]

I also read that he doesn't want to upset Leave voters that Labour lost in the last election, Jase.

[tobyjugg2]

13 minutes ago, Jase1982 said:

 

Starmer is just scared of going against what the people voted for.  He thinks the risk of not supporting brexit is greater than the risks to peoples livelihood.

 

11 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

I also read that he doesn't want to upset Leave voters that Labour lost in the last election, Jase.

 

I see the reasoning

But neither seems to hold water to me

 

Labour voters were 70% remain - thats who he's now betraying - the others already considered themselves betrayed - and the polls claim many regret voting for Johnson now anyway - so Starmers stance is likely to add to their disaffection

 

add to that the simple fact that Labour abstaining is extremely unlikely to make any difference in the vote result - and if it does the flack/credit will go to the populist rebels and the DUP and SNP

.. provided Starmer steps up his game just a bit

 

 

Seems to me that what starmers really afraid of is Cluckski and the corbynistas

Edited December 29, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[Jase1982]

5 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

 

 

I see the reasoning

But neither seems to hold water to me

 

 

 

That is the reasoning, but I agree it doesn't hold water.  It just proves once again that brexit is being pushed by a hidden hand.  He's more afraid of not towing the line at this stage

[tobyjugg2]

Why?

Its ages until another general election and all he is doing is putting off the hard choices until later - when the issues will be fresh in voters minds on the run up to a vote

 

He's rather a lame duck opposition leader at the moment doing little better than Corbyn did - although it would seem that Corbyns ineffectiveness was through choice as he wanted Brexit.

Starmer should be biting the bullets now

 

I understand that Starmer doesn't want to be seen as 'wanting to undo Brexit' despite the polls saying that Remain sentiment is clearly in a majority now that truths are coming out, but he shouldn't be seen to be embracing one that doesn't meet the claims made to the UK populace.

 

Starmer should be giving Milliband a front seat facing Johnson while Starmer focuses on the internal issues

Edited December 29, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

3 hours ago, Jase1982 said:

 

That is the reasoning, but I agree it doesn't hold water.  It just proves once again that brexit is being pushed by a hidden hand.  He's more afraid of not towing the line at this stage

 

 

While we wait for some expansion on that,

Jase, Is that the excuse for Carbuncles ineffectiveness (except against his own Labour MPs) - that some one was pulling his strings? Or do you think Carbuncle was immune .. or a victim because he  didn't .. whatever ...

I'm convinced carbuncle just wanted to consolidate his power and get Brexit so he could do whatever he wanted - largely like Johnson.

 

[tobyjugg2]

ERG is voting with Johnson

[tobyjugg2]

“no threat to the Erasmus scheme.”

- Boris 'The Liar' Johnson January 2020

 

 

and this page seems to be continuing to load forever according to the slider bar getting smaller and smaller

[honeybee13]

David Allen Green of the FT thinks the Implementation Bill is an exercise in the Government taking power from Parliament.

 

https://davidallengreen.com/2020/12/the-bill-implementing-the-trade-and-cooperation-agreement-is-an-exercise-in-the-government-taking-power-from-parliament/

[tobyjugg2]

Gibralta to join Schengen zone

[honeybee13]

... so the new blue passport won't work there, Schengen citizens will be let through and Brits will have to queue up.