Article 50 Discussion

[brassnecked]

@snowdragon All the Political parties are equally dire, and 0only out for themselves, once in Office they are open with their lies.

[Jase1982]

10 minutes ago, snowdragon said:

all Political Parties are as bad as each other, 

 

No commented for a while, but I'm not sure I agree with this.  Most people vote either blue or green and the vast majority have never ventured outside of this narrow political spectrum.  There are decent politicians out there, it's just that they either get less exposure or the decent ones gravitate towards either the blue or red team usually dependant on family history etc.

 

So, you end up with a congested center ground abd fringe parties that no-one votes for because they don't know enough about them.

 

There are decent politician about.

[tobyjugg2]

Although I broadly agree with that sentiment Jase, the 'conservative MP's have just defined themselves by almost all blocking a relatively small sum to feed hungry UK children

Approx 125 million it cost to feed hungry children over 6 weeks I saw

 

So as a rough rule of thumb If we take 4 weeks of lockdown and 4 weeks of holidays until 'spring, you are talking about them refusing

* less than sercos EXTRA profits from covid,

* and FAR less than the cost of the failed collect 250 spit samples a day exercise

 

Despicable doesn't even start to describe them.

 

 

 

[determindator]

There was the eat out to help out, many restaurants and pubs still giving the concession. If the lucky ones get their treat, there should be no argument not to give free school meals to children not so lucky.

[Jase1982]

40 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

Although I broadly agree with that sentiment Jase, the 'conservative MP's have just defined themselves by almost all blocking a relatively small sum to feed hungry UK children

Approx 125 million it cost to feed hungry children over 6 weeks I saw

 

 

 

 

 

Its absolutely scandalous isn't it.

 

However, I'm assuming they were whipped.  The current whipping system parliament use for ensuring all red or blue MP's vote for the party line is another issue as it doesn't allow for most MP's to have a backbone.   So, where's the democracy there?   We have a situation where the government propose something, MP'S aren't largely able to vote with their conscience.  Worse still, the government have a huge majority, so it doesn't matter too much whether there's an opposition or whether an MP believe something is truly right or wrong.

 

Thankfully we seem to have been saved lately by the house of Lords rejecting a few bills that I've read about.

[honeybee13]

28 minutes ago, determindator said:

There was the eat out to help out, many restaurants and pubs still giving the concession. If the lucky ones get their treat, there should be no argument not to give free school meals to children not so lucky.

 

Indeed. There's growing support for Marcus Rashford today and businesses and individuals are piling in  to offer help. He's making the government look very silly IMO. 

[tobyjugg2]

I know you are being discrete, but Silly doesn't begin to cut it HB

 

@Jase

That they were whipped is not a single iota of an excuse for any of them IMO.

Supporting a monstrous Westminster central power play just demonstrates how little they consider ot their local electorate, or even basic common humanity

 

Even given party politics, they should have raised enough of an internal ruckus that it never came to that, and the children were simply fed.

 

[Jase1982]

7 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

I know you are being discrete, but Silly doesn't begin to cut it HB

 

@Jase

That they were whipped is not a single iota of an excuse for any of them IMO.

Supporting a monstrous Westminster central power play just demonstrates how little they consider ot their local electorate, or even basic common humanity

 

Even given party politics, they should have raised enough of an internal ruckus that it never came to that, and the children were simply fed.

 

 

I agree but it doesn't change the fact they're all in the system the same way we are and they vote in certain ways for varying reasons that are far far away from our own motives.

 

The whole wretched system needs taking down and starting from scratch 

[theoldrouge]

From Alasdair Macleod , 40 years in stockbroking and financial  analysis 

The Eurozone is bust. The deterioration of TARGET2

imbalances have been hardly noticed, but in recent months it has been alarming. Despite official denials over the years that it is a matter of concern, it is increasingly obvious that the national banks of Italy, Spain and other nations with increasing bad debts are hiding them within the TARGET2 system. The first wave of Covid-19, which is leading to bankruptcies throughout the Eurozone, is now being followed by a second wave, which will almost certainly take out a number of important banks, in which case the cross-border euro system will implode.

 

https://www.goldmoney.com/research/goldmoney-insights/the-destruction-of-the-euro

[honeybee13]

8 hours ago, Jase1982 said:

 

I agree but it doesn't change the fact they're all in the system the same way we are and they vote in certain ways for varying reasons that are far far away from our own motives.

 

The whole wretched system needs taking down and starting from scratch 

 

Proportional representation would be a start, but I can't see the Conservatives voting for that now they've redrawn the constituency boundaries to suit themselves. Turkeys, Christmas and all that.

[honeybee13]

Oh dear, the government has just realised that being a third country after Brexit means that Brits will have to go into the queue for non-EU nationals when arriving in the EU.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/23/uk-presses-for-use-of-faster-passport-gates-at-eu-airports-post-brexit?utm_term=e519c6f20424635724b1e89f0589c05d&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email

[honeybee13]

...and this is Richard North's take on it.

 

https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-an-inability-to-understand/

[tobyjugg2]

11 hours ago, theoldrouge said:

From Alasdair Macleod , 40 years in stockbroking and financial  analysis 

The Eurozone is bust. The deterioration of TARGET2

 

 

From Brexiters Rees-Mogg and Redwood

- Move your financial assets to the EU while you can before Brexit

 

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/these-are-the-brexiteers-looking-to-secure-their-eu-rights-ahead-of-the-uks-departure-from-the-bloc/22/06/

https://www.ft.com/content/38987fe2-6f19-11e8-92d3-6c13e5c92914 (paywalled)

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Jase1982 said:

 

I agree but it doesn't change the fact they're all in the system the same way we are and they vote in certain ways for varying reasons that are far far away from our own motives.

certainly seems that way

 

11 hours ago, Jase1982 said:

 

The whole wretched system needs taking down and starting from scratch 

 

I don't think that would actually solve anything - the effluent would soon float to the top again in any system as there is no penalty for even blatant lies

... let alone 'the politician didn't lie, he 'genuinely thought telling the British electorate it was the right thing to do while telling his clients in his investment business to run like hell'

 

[tobyjugg2]

29 Farage Garages? or Just the latest of many Johnsons Follies?

 

 

"New photos show how the county nicknamed the Garden of England may soon be more accurately described as the nation’s lorry park – thanks to Brexit preparations.

The images show the full jaw-dropping magnitude of a scheme (one of 29 such) which will see 27 acres of Kent’s green fields ripped up and concreted over to create a sprawling 2,000-vehicle holding facility for trucks crossing the Channel."

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-news-uk-kent-lorry-park-channel-crossing-b1278893.html

 

From comments:

They promised us the easiest deal in history. Frictionless trade. And better jobs for the "forgotten". This is what we get.

...

lorry dumps and portaloos that come to symbolize this incompetent callous government.

[tobyjugg2]

so who remembers this utter cobblers spun by the right wing (which was of course denied by Nissan - as it was cobblers)

 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-7962367/Nissans-Brexit-boost-Car-giant-secret-plan-close-EU-factories.html

[tobyjugg2]

Interesting that the issues of Johnsons problems with whichever side wins the US elections is starting ti hit the main news services

 

Summary

If Trump won:

Trump has defined in the trade objectives already referred here, would want to open up the UK to US GM crops and hormone injected and chlorine bleached meat while allowing damn significant to the UK populous in from the UK 0 which Johnson crew have no issue with and have been enabling despite the Johnson and crew lies.

Other than that Trump would only want the UK govs unqualified support in whatever he chose to tweet.

 

When Biden wins

Biden is still America first, and an Irish American at that. Johnson is a Brexit and Trump supporting populist who has thrown Ireland under his red brexit bus.

Biden will also be less interested in a UK that can't promote US interests in the EU so all that remains (at least until Scot independence) is the UK's vote as a permanent member on the security council and as a market for US goods on US terms.

 

The Tories will need to get rid of Johnson and the populists and hope the blame for the multiple train wrecks at hand goes with them - now the Brexit and freeport goal has effectively been achieved.

 

[honeybee13]

The Department for International Trade, headed by Liz Truss I believe, got it rather wrong on its Twitter feed earlier.

 

They said that soya [sic] sauce would be cheaper now the UK has a deal with Japan. They hadn't noticed that there was already a 0% tariff because of our deal with Japan via the EU. People also pointed out that a lot of soy sauce is made in Holland by Kikkoman and that it will be more expensive in January if there isn't a deal.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/54718306

 

[tobyjugg2]

I dont see anything significant for the UK in the Japan deal at all

Some extra access for financial institutions ... maybe ... in a few years

 

but other than that there seems to be little other than some gains for Japan in ability to use the proposed 'tax haven freeport sites (they dont have to be at ports) ' to 'virtually' ship parts through the UK into europe as cars

- probably supported by tax payer funded allowances while paying naff all in UK taxes.

[tobyjugg2]

[honeybee13]

Reading BN's man Richard North this morning, he's unimpressed with the new FTA with Japan.

 

https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-a-deal-we-can-do-without/

[brassnecked]

Its small beer in the scheme of things HB, and MSM will lap it up.

[honeybee13]

It seems very favourable to Japan.

 

As for the soy sauce debacle... Who are these people running the Twitter feeds for government departments?

[tobyjugg2]

mm - 5x more benefit to Japan than to the UK

I couldn't find that much actual real benefit to the UK, and nothing that was effectively and practically better than the existing EU-JP deal we benefited from ... to the British public

 

.. seems to include the future 'possible' (aka not against the laws of physics) increases in UK 'enhanced financial access

(which will certainly only be allowed where Japan benefits more from them)

[honeybee13]

Indeed.

 

I was interested in his comment that one Ireland is worth six Japans in terms of exports. It's an awful lot easier to get to.

[tobyjugg2]

On 23/10/2020 at 13:09, determindator said:

There was the eat out to help out, many restaurants and pubs still giving the concession. If the lucky ones get their treat, there should be no argument not to give free school meals to children not so lucky.

 

Interesting that analysis seem to show that the eat out to help out

* didn't significantly help the industry - although it did help somewhat as a temporary patch which has largely been undone

* DID seem to help the spread of covid (less surety on that)

* cost the british taxpayer 500 million mainly to the benefit of higher end 'restaurants and wealthier eaters

 

Imagine if that money had been spent using outlets to feed hungry children ...

but of course the benefit wouldn't have gone to the same sort of places - more to high street cafes etc.