Article 50 Discussion

[cjcregg]

11 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

 

 

Are you saying things have improved since 2016?

In terms of the cost of the UK's borrowing, absolutely yes.

[tobyjugg2]

3 minutes ago, cjcregg said:

In terms of the cost of the UK's borrowing, absolutely yes.

 

How?

Debt around the world may cost everybody less than it did, because eveyones broke, but how does that help the overall picture of debt, or even just interest as a proportion of GDP .. now, let alone in6 months time when a massive amount of UK business is planned to be sat in Lorry parks?

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Boris the Liar says he is ready for no deal:

 

We have almost completed moving the unwanted funds out of the UK with 667 million pounds of outflows in June, 368 million in July and 195 million in August on top of the trillions of pounds of unwanted assetts we have already thrown out during my leadership successfully shrinking the UK economy by over 20% to aid paying for all the increased borrowing

 

and should our plans to use the EU's support of peace in Ireland enabling us to route our goods through NI bypassing our international agreements, we are well on the way to completing the world leading UK infrastructure upgrade of fencing 29 multi-acre fields in which to park our lorries at only £300 per lorry parking fine.

 

and let there be no doubt, that should those hi-tec fields be needed while our plan to use the EU's support of peace in Ireland come to fruition, it will only be temporary, as Boris the Liar is using his world beating skills in planning and building bridges to build a bridge from the new EU Nation of Scotland to the EU's United Island of Ireland across the megaton of dumped WWII explosive to bypass the limited port facilities on the west side of England and foreign tariffs.

 

In the meantime, Grant Shapps will be using the far laxer US registration of his UK private plane as allowed by its US registration to ship essential supplies by the ton to the Westminster subsidised canteen and bar where overbearingly safety concious UK registration would not have allowed the far more efficient overloading and lax maintenance of his plane.

 

Secretary of state for housing Jenrick says he has already paid a nominal retainer (just a few dozen 10's of millions) to a pal with plans to build as many as a million new world leading 2 meter by 2 meter by 2 meter properties in the 29 sites as soon as the Lorries have rotted away creating a firm foundation for the properties to be built on sometime in the coming centuries.

 

Handcock added: This will unquestionably help prevent those horrible foreigners coming into out country and watering down our world beating Covid stats.

 

In the meantime, the UK's lack of any plans to meet its climate commitments have been accelerated saving an equal amount of money, while Peterborough is developed as a seaside resort to take advantage the expected 5 degrees of warming and resultant rise in sea levels.

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-funds/uk-funds-see-record-1-6-billion-outflows-june-aug-on-no-deal-brexit-fears-calastone-idUKKBN25Y26T

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grant-shapps-private-plane-pilot-register-faa-caa-a9703401.html

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51443191

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/global-warming-climate-models-higher-than-usual-confusing-scientists-2020-2

 

[London1971]

16 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

last downgrade was in 2017

 

Downward pressure on UK ratings is far more recent

as is the Johnsons' governments apparent virulent displays of rank incompetence

To some extent our low long term borrowing costs are down to having our own independent currency from the Euro, investors see us as being able to print our own money if necessary, whether this is a good or bad thing is highly debatable.

 

However, if investors see us as a bad long term bet, then interest rates will need to go up in order to attract them, and our borrowing costs will rise.  All this AA , triple AAA stuff is more about how people see a country long term than in 3 months time. Nobody knows how that will pan out, yet.

[tobyjugg2]

print money without growth = inflation and increasingly worthless currency to pay debt interest in dollars = rapid and massive increase in % interest rate charges on debt

 

No if buts or maybes on that.

 

 

addendum

The markets are happy for nations to have large debt at low interest at the moment as there is lots of 'credit' around, but consider a worldwide recovery with the UK lagging due to the double whammy of Brexit and poor covid management

...

More countries wanting credit based on national growth (and thats not a headline return to 1-2% growth after 30% fall)

.. interest rates increase ...

Edited September 8, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[London1971]

It's also not inconceivable that 'long term', there are people banking that eventually  at some point in the next decade we will finally be led by the adults in the room. Who can at least start the long process of repairing damage.

[honeybee13]

If the government ploughs on with the bill aimed at over-riding some of the withdrawal agreement/treaty, legal people are saying it could well end up with the ECJ.

[London1971]

The problem is that neither the hard Brexiteers  in government or the staunch Brexit supporters in general don't care!  Everyone else is too distracted by Covid 19.

[honeybee13]

I guess you're right London. They should care, it would be expensive and make us look even worse to the world.

[honeybee13]

The Guardian has just said the permanent secretary of the government legal department has resigned, it seems over the plan to over-ride the withdrawal agreement.

 

Lord Falconer has said that for a good lawyer like this to leave, there must be something rotten about the government. Like breaking the law was one suggestion.

[London1971]

This sort of thing is strong in every country, populist, nationalist racist views. Observed at the last French election , where plus 30% of the population voted for a fascist leaning holocaust denier.  

[brassnecked]

Johnson is on his way out probably gone soon once theyhave their No Deal

 

https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-a-collapse-of-trust/

[London1971]

Johnson’s pandemic response was His Poll Tax/ Back to Basics/ Brexit Referendum/ Iraq moment.

 

Some of those previous leaders zombied on for a few years after their watershed but they were done! Just like Boris is!

[brassnecked]

Yes Flu plan agreed by Labour initially confirmed by Tory/LimpDim, and used for s SARS. Johnson is a complete berk.

[London1971]

Perhaps so but the errors have been well discussed. At any rate it doesn’t matter. It’s sunk him!

[tobyjugg2]

4 hours ago, London1971 said:

It's also not inconceivable that 'long term', there are people banking that eventually  at some point in the next decade we will finally be led by the adults in the room. Who can at least start the long process of repairing damage.

 

they are going to be in a poor position

Biggest debt mountain ever generated, destroyed manufacturing, international reputation in shreds, Corbynistas still causing **** and the Tories claiming 'we would have done better its you thats messed it up

and idiots around the country thinking ... errr not thinking ...

[tobyjugg2]

The Northern Ireland secretary, Brandon Lewis, astonished backbenchers when he told the House of Commons:

“Yes, this does break international law"

 

.. anything else he said is really irrelevant

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/08/government-admits-new-brexit-bill-will-break-international-law

 

For a change:

https://www.malaymail.com/news/money/2020/09/08/pound-nears-one-month-dollar-low-on-brexit-woes/1901368

 

" Sterling sank close to a one-month low against the dollar low today as investors fretted over heightened Brexit tensions"

 

"The British pound had already dived Monday after Prime Minister Boris Johnson revived the prospect of a no-deal Brexit, saying if an EU trade deal is not struck by October 15 then there will not be one."

 

 

Don't forget our interest payments on the debt mountain are effectively in dollars

The cost just went up again.

Edited September 8, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Later,

(Brandon Lewis) "batted away a question from Hilary Benn, the chair of the Brexit select committee, who demanded to know if, as expected under the protocol, businesses from Great Britain would have to fill in paperwork, including entry summary declarations, if sending goods to Northern Ireland.

That, said Lewis, was being discussed by the specialised EU-UK committee set up under the withdrawal agreement."

 

 

Hilary Benn did not apparently ask if that was the withdrawal agreement that the UK was undermining and reneging on...

 

 

I think real Tories will be more forthright than Benn

Edited September 8, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Even:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1332677/brexit-news-us-uk-trade-deal-us-congress-boris-johnson-eu-uk-trade-talks-latest

 

As commented on when Johnson mumbled about messing with the Irish peace process/agreements before

- of which the US is guarantor and the very powerful Irish - US lobby simply wont put up with ..

 

No EU deal

No US deal

 

and for someone who reneges on internationally binding deals - no point in any deals at all with Johnson and his pals is there?

We might be able to come to some agreement with Putin and Kim Jong haircut - maybe China - was that always the plan?

 

https://americancompass.org/the-commons/are-british-conservatives-providing-a-future-template-for-post-trump-republicans/

 

and Frost says the EU needs 'more realism'

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/boris-johnson-s-government-is-privately-desperate-for-trump-to-lose-the-election-to-joe-biden/ar-BB17cRsx

[honeybee13]

The internal market bill is going well then. The EU have given us three weeks to back down or they will take legal action and try to impose legal penalties or trade sanctions.

 

The pol ed of the Mail says he doesn't see Bozo backing down. Who knows where this could go but there are remedies via the ECJ and other means.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/10/fears-grow-that-uk-is-preparing-to-quit-brexit-talks

[London1971]

When Bozo speaks he lies. 

[tobyjugg2]

Everybody noticed that Gov, Johnson and now other Johnsonite Ministers like Shapps, Jenrick and Zalawi - when challenged 'wheres the great deal or any deal' they are saying 'we got a great deal when we left' - referring to the withdrawal agreement rather than any significant trade deal with anybody

 

Why is NO-ONE challenging them on that when they spout that utter crap?

Isn't that the deal that they voted for and is so great that they are now desperately breaking international law and the remnants of UK's international reputation to get out of?

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

There are several possibilities, aren't there, TJ? One that's been mentioned a few times is 'I had my fingers crossed behind my back when I signed.

 

Gove said early on that what we didn't like we'd renegotiate, didn't he?

[tobyjugg2]

This issue isnt that 'populist Liars lie, and that Johnson is the epitome of lying liars,

its that the interviewers don't challenge them on blatant lies like that

 

Thats not impartiality - its utterly failing to do their job and enabling those lying to the British public

 

Oh - and I hope that everyone understands why Johnson wants out of the 'state support' bit of the EU agreement despite the EU having no issues with required support of core national interests and both Germany and France spend far more supporting those that the UK

 

... Uk Tax payer support of Singapore on Thames

Edited September 11, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[London1971]

No one is challenging him because they want to keep their jobs